antifreeze/coolant?

[falcoron]

Sorry if this has been covered millions of times before but, if i flush out my system on me bongo can i then replace it with any type of antifreeze/coolant or only a specific kind? ( i know you cant mix certain ones)
And if i do is it worth replacing the water pump? or best to leave well alone.
Thanks
Ron

[haydn callow]

As long as it is flushed really well and you are confidant all the old stuff is out...Yes, you can go for universal 2 year or the 5 year option....if your pump aint broke then dont fix it.....worth putting a new stat in though..
Make sure you (or whoever is doing it) knows how to bleed the system of air..
Not a strightforward job and if you get it wrong it can cost loads to put right..

[falcoron]

Thanks Haydn.
Have read and printed off your flush and bleed proceedure and an confident i can do this ok.
have the funnel and antifreeze ready to go. Will wait till all the frost has gone as the flush instructions call for this.
Bit i dont like about the flusher is they ask for half of the coolant to be let out then topped up again using the flusher diluted with water then run for 48 hours.
If i let out that amount of coolant and retop with the flush solution i would need to go through the whole bleed polava and then again once drained and filled. Could take a whole freakin weekend do do this.
Any thoughts welcome

[haydn callow]

As i've never actually used flushing fluid ...we had better wait till Kirsty or whoever has their input

[missfixit70]

Right, here's my thoughts for what they're worth, I took out my stat when I flushed mine, replaced the sealing ring to seal the housing, & used the Holts 2 part flush which I think only had to be run for half an hour or so, easier to bleed it with no stat in, & in theory ensures the flush gets everywhere.
I then dropped the coolant after it had cooled for an hour or so, taking off hoses at rear heater & both sides of rad as well as the bleed hose & rad drain cock, rad backflushed from the lower hose connection ( I'd also done it before I began) & flushed through both ways with a hosepipe at all the disconnected hoses, reconnected back up, put the second part of the flush in (pretty much a neutraliser) bled up & another half an hour running. Allowed to cool & dropped at the same points again, flushed again with freshwater until I'm sure it's clear.
Then new stat fitted (after checking its operation in a pan of water against the old one), coolant & water added, all connections double checked & bled up, leaving the heaters off until the temp gauge rises, then check both front & back heaters to check thay're blowing hot (& airlock free), turn them off again & make sure it gets warm/hot at the bottom hose which shows the stat is opening.
Personally I reckon while you're at it, I'd think about changing the pump, quite a few seem to have had problems recently, at least you know it should be ok then, just my opinion of course - as is all of this

[falcoron]

As usual Kirsty stirling stuff, thanks.
I had thought that the pump is probably an original so 15 years old a so maybe worth doing, peace of mind and all.
Cheers.

[mikeonb4c]

Right, here's my thoughts for what they're worth, I took out my stat when I flushed mine, replaced the sealing ring to seal the housing, & used the Holts 2 part flush which I think only had to be run for half an hour or so, easier to bleed it with no stat in, & in theory ensures the flush gets everywhere.
I then dropped the coolant after it had cooled for an hour or so, taking off hoses at rear heater & both sides of rad as well as the bleed hose & rad drain cock, rad backflushed from the lower hose connection ( I'd also done it before I began) & flushed through both ways with a hosepipe at all the disconnected hoses, reconnected back up, put the second part of the flush in (pretty much a neutraliser) bled up & another half an hour running. Allowed to cool & dropped at the same points again, flushed again with freshwater until I'm sure it's clear.
Then new stat fitted (after checking its operation in a pan of water against the old one), coolant & water added, all connections double checked & bled up, leaving the heaters off until the temp gauge rises, then check both front & back heaters to check thay're blowing hot (& airlock free), turn them off again & make sure it gets warm/hot at the bottom hose which shows the stat is opening.
Personally I reckon while you're at it, I'd think about changing the pump, quite a few seem to have had problems recently, at least you know it should be ok then, just my opinion of course - as is all of this

Out of interest Kirsty did the stuff that came out whilst flushing look like it contained much crud?

[falcoron]

How much antifreeze/coolant will i need?
just thinking i have 5ltrs neat stuff will i need more?

[missfixit70]

A fair bit of crud Mike, not as much as some have experienced, but then it had coolant changed a year before along with some of the hoses.
Falcoron, the system hols @13litres, I find 5 litres is enough, gives just under 40% strength, fine down to -20 something degrees, doesn't freeze in my freezer , but recomended is 50%, it's up to you, bear in mind anticorrosive properties too, which will degrade over time, I bank on changing mine at least every 2 years, so that doesn't concern me unduly. Lots of discussions on here on concentration etc.

[haydn callow]

Yep...40% should be plenty...remember that the more antifreeze you put in the hotter you will run....50% is a Max and I would say 30% a Min for this country.
I wouldn't know the figures but I know that water is better at removing heat than antifreeze.

[daveblueozzie]

this was posted by mikxgough, might help.

as can be seen in the Tech specs...."CarPlan Five Star Premium Red Antifreeze is compatible with good quality traditional (Blue/Green) silicate antifreezes however it is not recommended that the two types be mixed as this would completely negate any extended life characteristics of the Long Life Coolant. It is for this reason that extended life antifreeze sare coloured Red/Orange".
But that is because it's of a certain group of coolants - The general rule of thumb is G11 is the boggo blue stuff you can buy at any car place equivalent. G12 is pink, and does not play well with other children - mix it with G11 and you'll get a horrible brown sludge. G12+ is mainly used now, which mixes with anything – Mostly Red in colour, Notable Brands are Carplan Premium Red & Comma Extreme Red, VW & PSA group vehicles use it and it is coloured Purple.
Any of them will protect fine against corrosion provided they are changed at the stated interval - which for G12+ is "never". But given the chances of any of us "never" draining the coolant for whatever reason, just use G12+. Plus, it can be purple too, so it has to be good.
So as you say you can use the Car Plan Premium Red and the GSF G12+ purple as a top up on a fresh import, obviously as Car Plan State, the mixing will negate the longlife properties of the Premium red and you should IMHO replace the unknown on a fresh import with new coolant as the time/garage appointment allows. You are right too in the thinking that Jap coolant is OAT based, but with one exception and that is Toyota Red, for Toyota guys they should really "keep the faith" and keep using the Toyota Red as it is formulated for their engines.I have been talking to a chap who imports Jap cars from Skylines,Prius,Delica,Pajero,Bongo's,Cube's right down to Mitsuoka's....so he knows his stuff. They have the same issue with imports, some come in with yellow/green/red/blue coolants from Japan, shockingly they don't usually change the coolant for a known type but if needed (not very often very rare he says) they top up with a G12+ coolant. After chatting he feels that he should include a coolant change as a pre delivery item.
The Subaru import guys tend to go the Subaru factory coolant way, complete replacement with the 11 year life factory spec coolant, yet the Skyline guys do the G12+ Red coolant(Car Plan/Comma) route. Now a VW mechanic was telling me about their purple G12+ coolant which they and PSA use....they consider that to be fit and forget lifetime of the car product... but he did say that the generic replacement that Euro Car Parts sell for VW's is Car Plan red, which a lot of VW owners use should they need to replenish the system due to modifications/damaged parts. GSF car parts sell the G12+ Purple for VW group vehicles.
Hope that helps your thoughts and curiosity...matey...........but in the ideal world....change the coolant on a fresh import for a decent Long Life coolant and on a vehicle unknown to you ...... flush and replace as it makes sense....nothing more sinister than that really.....as for choice of coolant and I for one would not influence anyone here.....yer pays yer money....but what ever you choose....don't mix it.....
Although a G12+ coolant will be a "get out of jail" card in an emergency/short term measure. I haven't included Thermostat change in the above information but would recommend that too while the cooling system was down...

[mikexgough]

In my info that David posted, I decided not to name brands unless I knew that they were compatible with all coolants, however, as I stated even if you do use a G12+ of the Brands I named, then the mixing process reduces the long life protection of the G12+ product that a full coolant change would give.
Obviously, you pays your money for whatever coolant brand you chose, but and the big but is....... check the technical specs before you buy so then you will know where you are with top ups.......and if you do fill with a G11 or G12.....then you have the knowledge that a G12+ will "get you out of jail in an emergency " before you do a full change.....
Common sense says.....get 5 litres of coolant for the full change and another litre bottle on the garage shelf for any small top ups you may need to do

[falcoron]

Superb stuff!
my place of work uses red coolant and is specified for alu heads. Its used on all our generator engines from diesel, to gas and petrol. 4 cylinder to massive v24 diesels. Our techy guy tells me its the best you can buy. I work for a very large american eng company and we make generators of all shapes and sizes and pump out over 1600 per week. using engines from caterpillar,perkind,rolls royce,cummings lister, and loads more from all over the globe. all use this antifreeze/coolant so im confident this will do me after flushing and rinsing out the system and changing the thermostat.

[missfixit70]

I think most of the red stuff has the advantage of glowing under UV light doesn't it? so in the event of a hard to find leak, get out there after dark with your UV torch.

[mikexgough]

I think most of the red stuff has the advantage of glowing under UV light doesn't it? so in the event of a hard to find leak, get out there after dark with your UV torch.

It sure does..... double whammy really..... good coolant and UV detection too....... Bonus........