Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

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Ron Miel
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Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:31 am

Here are photos of the installation I did this week. Please review in conjunction with the manual, if using them to assist an installation.

Each Bongo being almost one of a kind, due to the enormous number of pick 'n mix variations available, you may find that aspects of what is shown here do not match your vehicle. Ours is a "new shape" (Feb 1999 to August 2001 base models series), manufactured in December 2000, and first registered in April 2001. Full code info is VIN SG5W-403xxx; Grade RFV-S Special Edition; Model-Spec S55H-5BA. I assume that the last of those terms ("Model-Spec") is a record of exactly which "Special Edition" it is - i.e., which options were fitted.

In fact, a majority of the available options were fitted to this vehicle which, together with after-market add-ons (LPG conversion, full camper conversion, coolant alarm, TM-2, etc.) meant that there's a lot of additional cabling and hardware (e.g., the LPG ECU), particularly under the dash, and this made access very difficult for some elements of the cruise control installation. So, the better equipped the Bongo, the harder the installation is likely to be.

The LPG hardware in the engine compartment made it totally impossible to install the Waeco vacuum servo (actuator) there, without either interfering with other systems, or risking exceeding its max temperature limit - hence the location, and installation layout I've used. It might even be difficult for any V6, even if not LPG converted.

In any case, the method used here is equally applicable as an alternative approach for any Bongo, whether or not forced on you by space limitations.

1.) Vacuum servo (actuator) bolted on in the front compartment, using the engine air intake duct fixing bolt (lightweight servo, and wholly secure):

Image

2.) Vacuum take off, directly in front of the brakes vacuum servo outlet:

Image

3.) Actuator bowden cable and wiring passed through the bulkhead into the cabin, using a large plastic blanking plate above the foot rest - where the clutch would be mounted in a manual bongo? WARNING - if you use this method, the plastic is too thick for the one grommet supplied by Waeco. I found that out too late, and have had to remove the grommet and bodge fill the large hole that left, with silicone sealant.:

Image

4.) "Caburator (sic) shaft" ((page 6, D1 in manual), bent into a right angle ended bracket, supporting the clamped end of the bowden cable's outer sheath, and bolted to the steel upright behind and left of the interior fusebox. This is necessary for the bowden cable inner wire to reach the top of the accelerator pedal lever, as below.

Image

5.) Actuator bowden cable clamped to the engine throttle cable at the top of the accelerator pedal lever - page 7, E2 in the manual. The drawing there suggests that a fixed bracket is used for attachment but none is provided, and it is in fact essential to use the supplied cable clamp and cable stopper, as shown. When operated by the accelerator pedal, the engine throttle cable is pulled through the bulkhead lower left, but the actuator bowden cable, passing through the hole in the cable clamp, is not affected. When cruise control takes over, the cable stopper, clamped to the actuator cable, pulls up against the cable clamp, to operate the accelerator pedal lever and pull on the engine throttle cable. All stress is on the two small allen screws, one attaching the clamp to the throttle cable and the other clamping the stopper to the actuator cable, so those two screws must be fully tightened - and, I suggest periodically checked. In fact, I think I'll now Araldite lock mine. WARNING: If using this installation method, cover all trim and carpet openings around the accelerator pedal, before you drop clamp or stopper down into one of them - as I did!!

(EDIT, 28/09/09: I learned yesterday that DBO has lost his MS-50 cable stopper, from its location inside the engine bay, so the system therefore no longer works - and he has not yet found a replacement stopper. Bike ones, with wires clamped by washers, are I think not suitable. Anyone have a spare one, or know of a source?) EDIT: see separate posting below, on this subject.

Image

6.) Electronic module (p.8 in manual), with Velcro hook strips acroos its base:

Image

7.) Electronic module, Velcro-attached to carpet below below front heater unit - out of the way, out of the heater air flow, and totally secure (cabling since sleeved):

Image

8.) Possibly temporary control unit location, horizontally inverted, just inside the driver's door. It's a very simple one hole, stuck on, installation, which works well, although I may look for a compatible steering column stalk. Anyone know if there's one which is plug-compatible, using the connectors shown? Meanwhile, I've fabricated a temporary LED-reflector, using baking foil attached to a bit of bracketry from my toolbox - will replace with a proper mirror, if made permanent:

Image

Image

9.) LED reflector from driver's viewpoint:

Image

10.) Three (not two, as said elsewhere - in our case, at least) multi-plugs at rear of instrument panel. Access by removing four surround screws, unplugging cables from the surround to pull forward, then removing four instrument panel screws - hoping you don't have add-ons cabling in the way, making that very hard to do (as I found):

Image

11.) Snap-Lok connected blue Waeco cable to blue/white cable output from middle connector - as B14 on page 8 of the manual. Apparently there's a terminal "SP+" at the rear of the instrument panel, from which you can also obtain the speedo output - but I found that out too late!:

Image

12.) Brake light switch, at rear of top of brake pedal. Access by removing the trim panel below the steering wheel (not the steering wheel shroud), unplug the connector (push on ribbed top clip, hard) and snap lock Waeco brown/white wire to the existing permanently 12v+ wire - confirm with a multimeter at the detached connector. Connect Waeco brown to the other wire by Snap-Lok.

Image

13.) Securely attach the green earth wire to a multimeter-tested good chassis earthing point, rear of dashboard.

14.) Snap-Lok Waeco orange wire to the wire attached to the rear of Fuse 8, in the interior fusebox:

Image

15.) My finished installation- electronic module under front heater, and control unit centre right.

Image

With the loop wire cut (p.56, 2) and the sensitivity switch set to 'H' (P.56, 3), the system worked well first time out, and initial impressions are very good. Will write more on that, next week.

Sorry about the too small photos. Will try to find time to rectify that tomorrow (EDIT - now done), and will in any case, provide larger ones to Simon Jones, who is going to add some of this to his work in progress fact sheet.
Last edited by Ron Miel on Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:43 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Matt&JoyBongling » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:28 am

Good info. Not sure that the full VIN is required though - is it a security risk for you?

I had to get a professional, qualified automotive electrical engineer to test my self-installed Waeco MS-50 set up and confirm that it was safe to satisfy my insurance co. (NIG via LifeSure) as it was regarded as a modification. It is fantastic to have though.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:52 am

Matt&JoyBongling wrote:Good info. Not sure that the full VIN is required though - is it a security risk for you?

I had to get a professional, qualified automotive electrical engineer to test my self-installed Waeco MS-50 set up and confirm that it was safe to satisfy my insurance co. (NIG via LifeSure) as it was regarded as a modification. It is fantastic to have though.
Will substitute xx for some of the VIN numerals 8)

Had an Eberspacher heater installed by a qualified auto engineer/electrician. Plan to ask him to inspect the cruise control next week, and then insurance certify both jobs.

Yes, on the road, it looks great so far. Original pix now re-sized, BTW.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by apole » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:28 pm

Well done Ron, nice job and thanks for passing the info on.

Andy
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:11 am

apole wrote:Well done Ron, nice job and thanks for passing the info on.

Andy
Thanks Andy. Just added an edit to 5.) in the original post here, asking if anybody has a spare, or knows of a source for a suitable replacement cable stopper. daveblueozzies's came loose, and as it was an engine bay installation, has been lost - making the system useless at the moment. At one stage in my own installation, the stopper fell into a recess and, before I half dismantled the Bongo to recover it, I looked online for a good replacement. They're like hens teeth though, although I did find something suitable, from San Francisco(!) - but I can't yet even find that again, this morning. David.

EDIT: they're here, and look very similar to the Waeco ones. Anyone know a UK source?

http://www.1977mopeds.com/product/1307

FURTHER EDIT: daveblueozzie subsequently found a UK source, and we discovered from that source that they are correctly called cable knarps, not cable stops, and they seem to have originated in the world of BMX bikes - Odyssey cable knarps apparently being the main brand, and appearing to be the same as the ones supplied by Waeco. They can be found via Google. One UK source is here: http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/p ... ts_id=8094
Last edited by Ron Miel on Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:45 pm

Ron Miel wrote: .....Just added an edit to 5.) in the original post here, asking if anybody has a spare, or knows of a source for a suitable replacement cable stopper. daveblueozzies's came loose, and as it was an engine bay installation, has been lost - making the system useless at the moment. At one stage in my own installation, the stopper fell into a recess and, before I half dismantled the Bongo to recover it, I looked online for a good replacement. They're like hens teeth though, although I did find something suitable, from San Francisco(!) - but I can't yet even find that again, this morning. David.

EDIT: they're here, and look very similar to the Waeco ones. Anyone know a UK source?

http://www.1977mopeds.com/product/1307
My cable stop and cable clamp allen screws are now Araldite locked. The cable clamp screw is on the far side, out of view. This photo shows the actuator cable "pass through" more clearly:

Image

I've now driven about 100 miles or so since the MS50 installation, probably 60-70% of them with the MS50 in use, and in urban, rural and motorway driving. I think it is the bee's knees. However, if I had invented cruise control, I would have called it cruise assist, as the driver is in full control at all times.

The MS50 blurb talks about the system taking over, whereas, due to the effectiveness of the electronics, the vacuum actuator and, most of all, the simple pass through cable arrangement:

- if you want to go faster, or accelerate faster than the MS50's current settings provide for, just press down on the accelerator, also using gear shifts in the normal way as required, and off you go. Finishing that bit of manual control, just ease off and the MS50 will smoothly take you back to its set speed.

- if you want to slow down, as soon as you touch the brakes the MS50 relinquishes control and hands it instantly back to you*.

- if you want to revert to manual control, without necessarily braking or accelerating, just press the off button and you instantly have normal manual control*.

*(To go back to MS50 assisted cruising, at the previously set speed, just press the resume button - switching back on first, if switched off.)

- if you are in a stream of traffic, and have the MS50 set too slow or too fast, adjust your speed in one of two ways - either by 1 km/hr increments, using the set and resume buttons, or by manually adjusting your speed (brake or accelerate), then re-setting the MS50 with a two seconds press of the set button (no need to switch the unit off then on again, as in the manual).

On Sunday, I travelled from Chester to the Southport Air Show (M53, Mersey Tunnel, across Liverpool, then open road, with varying speed limits throughout), and back. It has never been easier to comply with speed limits, and I admit that the normal acceleration curve used by the MS50 is more road and vehicle friendly than my usual style of driving - but, as above, if you need to tank on, you can do so, without switching off or re-setting the MS50.

It has already delighted me with the much reduced workload needed to motorway cruise - but it is also very useful in some urban conditions. Ours works perfectly well from just below 20 mph, up to well over the legal speed limit - a wider range than specified by Waeco. Three or four long trips in front of us over the next couple of weeks, and I'm confident that the MS50 will make them much pleasanter than usual.

One final point - I noticed in another thread that somebody had given the opinion that a Bongo's brakes are not good enough for use with cruise control. It is absolutely clear that is not the case, as the braking requirement is exactly the same as it would have been if you had been manually driving up to the point at which you push the brake pedal - at that point, the cruise control instantly relinquishes control, while remaining switched on unless switched off by the driver. However, after relinquishing control, even if still switched on, an MS50 does not "fight the brakes " in any way - plus the fact that, with less application of brakes while actively using the MS50, the chance of finding faded brakes at the point where they are used is much reduced relative to normal manual driving. Remember, the MS50 maintains the set cruising speed only by throttle control, and does not operate the brakes at any time. If braking is needed while the MS50 is operating, it is the driver who applies the brakes - situation normal, and MS50 control relinquished immediately.
Last edited by Ron Miel on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:23 pm

Nice report there Ron. One minor thought. If that velcro is the self adhesive type I bet it'll let go after a while. I've taken to Evosticking my so called self-adhesive velcro in place , which seems so far to have sorted the problem.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:02 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:Nice report there Ron. One minor thought. If that velcro is the self adhesive type I bet it'll let go after a while. I've taken to Evosticking my so called self-adhesive velcro in place , which seems so far to have sorted the problem.
Ta Mike. Have never had that problem, as far as I recall (had better not, as copious amounts of Velcro are a crucial component in fixing our Porta-Potti cover!) but I do always clean surfaces well, with meths. Still, I'll keep an eye on it, and thanks for the warning.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:04 pm

Ron Miel wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote:Nice report there Ron. One minor thought. If that velcro is the self adhesive type I bet it'll let go after a while. I've taken to Evosticking my so called self-adhesive velcro in place , which seems so far to have sorted the problem.
Ta Mike. Have never had that problem, as far as I recall (had better not, as copious amounts of Velcro are a crucial component in fixing our Porta-Potti cover!) but I do always clean surfaces well, with meths. Still, I'll keep an eye on it, and thanks for the warning.
Oh, and the Velcro holding the MS50 controller on is hooked into, not stuck onto the carpet.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:08 pm

Ron Miel wrote:
Ron Miel wrote:
mikeonb4c wrote:Nice report there Ron. One minor thought. If that velcro is the self adhesive type I bet it'll let go after a while. I've taken to Evosticking my so called self-adhesive velcro in place , which seems so far to have sorted the problem.
Ta Mike. Have never had that problem, as far as I recall (had better not, as copious amounts of Velcro are a crucial component in fixing our Porta-Potti cover!) but I do always clean surfaces well, with meths. Still, I'll keep an eye on it, and thanks for the warning.
Oh, and the Velcro holding the MS50 controller on is hooked into, not stuck onto the carpet.
Goodo. Despite my best efforts with meths cleaning, mine still let go (usually after a hot spell) but mine may be inferior stuff :lol:
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:19 pm

Waeco MS-50 is now available in the UK at £117.95, plus £4.95 delivery - total £122.90. I paid £144.00 including delivery, from Germany :(

http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate ... width=1024
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:46 pm

Ron Miel wrote:>
>
...One final point - I noticed in another thread that somebody had given the opinion that a Bongo's brakes are not good enough for use with cruise control. It is absolutely clear that is not the case, as the braking requirement is exactly the same as it would have been if you had been manually driving up to the point at which you push the brake pedal - at that point, the cruise control instantly relinquishes control.....
As I see there's just been another cruise control thread started, I had better add this postscript, intended since we got back from 2 weeks camping in E Anglia earlier this month.

First point is that, agreeing with scanner elsewhere, cruise control is still the best thing since sliced bread in my mind. Did about 1500 miles in those two weeks, the cruise control was on for at least 75% of the time, and I honestly think it reduced driving effort by something like 40 or 50% - bloody marvellous!

Going back to cruise control and braking, we got an unwanted test, quicker than we expected. Night of 10 October, we headed up the A10 from Cambridge, for my birthday night out - dinner at The Anchor, Sutton Gault. It could easily have been my last birthday ever as while cruising at exactly 60mph (on cruise control), with just dipped headlights due to oncoming traffic, we suddenly met a large brown cow ambling directly towards us in the dark, in the middle of our carriageway, around a curve. Neither Mrs M nor I thought the Bongo would stop in time but, thanks to its excellent* brakes and ABS, and in full control, we came to a complete stop in plenty of time. Phew!!

*(Uprated on new shapes, if peeps are unhappy with them on older Bongos?).

Best of all, it really tested out all of my Bongo camping kit stowage - even the Porta-Potti, with a full therefore heavy, top flush tank, stayed put and spilled not a drop :shock: No problems either with the cruise control. We were able to go straight on, as there was a posse of farming types behind the animal, who did not need our help :lol: Shan't forget that night out in a hurry though :roll:
Last edited by Ron Miel on Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by alans00ty5 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:44 pm

Ron Miel wrote:
apole wrote:Well done Ron, nice job and thanks for passing the info on.

Andy
Thanks Andy. Just added an edit to 5.) in the original post here, asking if anybody has a spare, or knows of a source for a suitable replacement cable stopper. daveblueozzies's came loose, and as it was an engine bay installation, has been lost - making the system useless at the moment. At one stage in my own installation, the stopper fell into a recess and, before I half dismantled the Bongo to recover it, I looked online for a good replacement. They're like hens teeth though, although I did find something suitable, from San Francisco(!) - but I can't yet even find that again, this morning. David.

EDIT: they're here, and look very similar to the Waeco ones. Anyone know a UK source?

http://www.1977mopeds.com/product/1307

FURTHER EDIT: daveblueozzie subsequently found a UK source, and we discovered from that source that they are correctly called cable knarps, not cable stops, and they seem to have originated in the world of BMX bikes - Odyssey cable knarps apparently being the main brand, and appearing to be the same as the ones supplied by Waeco. They can be found via Google. One UK source is here: http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/p ... ts_id=8094
andy if you look in most r/c model cars & plane shops. they are used very often. hope this helps. sooty.
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Re: Waeco MS-50 cruise control in LPG V6 Bongo

Post by Ron Miel » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:00 am

alans00ty5 wrote:andy if you look in most r/c model cars & plane shops. they are used very often. hope this helps. sooty.
Assume you mean "knarps"? If so, that's useful info, as judging by two UK suppliers I've tried to get a spare from, they're like hens teeth in the bike trade at present - out of stock, re-stocking time unknown.
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