London Emissions Surcharge announcment

What's the MPG like? Can I use chip fat and veggie oil? What about LPG?

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Bongolia
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bongolia » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:57 pm

Website of interest for all you budding DIYers out there with blown up Bongos.
http://300mpg.org/
http://www.evalbum.com/5268
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mikeonb4c
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:03 pm

Bob wrote:Mike, next thing you'll be telling us about heavier than air planes with no engine at all. :shock:

Nahhh, too far fetched. :wink:
:lol: =D>

I already bored Ian de Bongomeister with how i dreamt up regenerative braking on east croydon station c1971 (while munching a Nutty bar i think -. remember them?). I couldn't do the maths though, on the compressed air system i had in mind (still think a compressed air system could be retrofitted to a Bongo). He's loaned me a couple of heavy sounding books to shut me up for a bit 8)
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bob » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:08 pm

Well, I suppose if East Croydon Station could be encouraged to move fast enough there would indeed be a good bit of kinetic energy which could be changed into potential. 8)

Going for my coat. :lol:
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:09 pm

Bongolia wrote:Website of interest for all you budding DIYers out there with blown up Bongos.
http://300mpg.org/
http://www.evalbum.com/5268
Love it. :-)
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:10 pm

Bob wrote:Well, I suppose if East Croydon Station could be encouraged to move fast enough there would indeed be a good bit of kinetic energy which could be changed into potential. 8)

Going for my coat. :lol:
One platform at a time Bob, one platform at a time, Sweet Jesus. :lol:
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bongolia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:03 pm

I don't believe the problem, is just politicians they may well be to blame for the position we find ourselves in though.
Battery powered cars have been around for over a century and the problem has always been the same, the energy and delivery capabilities of the electrical storage and the speed that they can be “refilled”

Imagine the situation where you could only run your car on fuel from a specific oil company that would be crazy.
Imagine it taking 30 mins to fill your car with conventional fuels crazier.
It seems obvious to me that a non manufacturer specific battery cassette is the way to go, it should have been implemented years ago. :?
A cassette of batteries FFS!

Oil companies produce fossil fuels (stored energy) to a standard that allow us to fill up at any gas station. So why not have a standardised method of delivering the battery power stored energy too.
At present we have a silly situation that means battery packs are not interchangeable between manufacturers/models and so require “electric filling stations” with fast chargers, if you call 30mins fast, this stifles development and introduction.

A standard battery cassette would allow fast change rounds, swapping would be accomplished automatically by machine at gas stations. If that sounds out of the ball park just look at Amazon and logistics companies for ideas.
Combine this with a different ownership model and you could start rolling out practical usable vehicles in a few years maybe sooner if it were trialed/adopted in public transports like black cabs. In years to come we may well develop other methods but for now this will do.

The biggest expense in the cost of short term ownership is the initial purchase price of the vehicle, longer term it`s replacement of knackered batteries and depreciation..
If a different model of ownership were introduced too then the uptake would increase rapidly. Think of the cost of the vehicle if it were bought sans batteries.
A battery leasing programme along the lines of the gas cylinders we use in our vans and barbecues maybe? An initial contract and then just the refill charge at each swap out.
You would retain the agreement for leasing of the batteries for the next "new" model and so it would stimulate vehicle sales and go someway to offsetting the depreciation.

I completely understand the motor manufacturers reluctance to go along with this.
For years, as anyone in the motor trade will tell you, they have actively lobbied and sought ways to keep the servicing and repair of their vehicles “in house”.
Ironically it was the EU that legislated against the this by introducing a freedom to repair policy and the release of information to enable that unless the information was related to safety.
It is not surprising how manufacturers are combining this repair info with “Safety info" since that legislation came into effect. [-X
Many owners of new vehicles still believe that the manufacturer has to carry out the servicing in the first three years else they would invalidate the warranty!

Back to the plot..
All this would need legislation that required electric vehicles to be able to use these standardised cassettes, this is where the politicians should be working not patching up, imposing restrictions and tolls directly on the motorist. The money raised by these schemes tends to be local and so is fragmented that the best they can achieve is small scale change and not the fundamental one, fossil fuels.

Governments should be actively working with, by that I mean forcing by legislation, electric vehicle manufacturers, to adopt a cassette battery standard.

This would require big bucks and probably state funding.
EU regs say that government, with the exception of the banks and Renault it would seem, :wink: cannot have extended interests directly.
When we had the Rover fiasco we had a great opportunity to get that back at least partially, into state control .
Hopefully when we are out of the EU we will be able to direct our tax money in a more appropriate way.

As for aircraft I seem to remember (but cannot find it) that FOTE said the amount of nano particulates emitted by one aircraft in the take off stage was equal to 300 unregulated diesel lorries running flat out for seven minutes ( I think this was the average plane take off time) that was some time ago and I hear the mantra by the aircraft/airport business lobby that they are becoming cleaner but not by much, maybe 100 lorries worth? :lol: :lol: :lol:
We have these taking off every 30 secs at Heathrow and Gatwick and soon Lydd.

Incidentally its not the planet that we are currently killing its just the living things on it.

Remember the Dinosaurs.
Helen for world leader!!
Rant over.
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by g8dhe » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:31 pm

We are still a way of from seeing a sensible electric car option, in my opinion, its coming without a doubt but still away to go.
Lithuim Ion batteries have made the current surge of interest viable, but the energy density is still far to low to be able to compare with current and expected driving range performance.
Again the changeable cassette makes a lot of (the only ?) sense, but with the limited energy density and the removal of heat from such a dense packing of cells its not a viable option at present, bear in mind the recent fire problems with aircraft and even phones/tablets, then think about the crash protection needed around the battery packs! Current designs have the cells well spread out and dispersed around the vehicle rather than in one compact cassette, this makes the heat management problems and the crash protection easier as only a few cells are likely to be damaged in the majority of crashes (we are talking shunts rather than crushed vehicles for most incidents).
I suspect autonomous cars are likely to make as much headway as solely electric vehicles before they become common place.
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by mikeonb4c » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:39 pm

Changeable cassettes were what i suggested to Clive Sinclair c1982. At that time i was thinking of inefficient batteries, urban situations (i.e. short distances, plenty of stationary periods), lots of charging stations (offering low skill employment), and government cost underwriting, just to help unlock the e-car market. But Clive Sinclair brought out the C5. Oh dear :-(
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bongolia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:35 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:Changeable cassettes were what i suggested to Clive Sinclair c1982. At that time i was thinking of inefficient batteries, urban situations (i.e. short distances, plenty of stationary periods), lots of charging stations (offering low skill employment), and government cost underwriting, just to help unlock the e-car market. But Clive Sinclair brought out the C5. Oh dear :-(
Seems it runs in the family!
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/sinclair- ... es-nephew/
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bongolia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:00 pm

Well swot me Bob!!
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/auto-gian ... g-network/

Very interesting site.
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by Bob » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:04 pm

Me? :shock:

:lol:
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Re: London Emissions Surcharge announcment

Post by BongoBongo123 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:38 pm

Was thinking about this.. given I can do 40mpg on a run in a 2.5 diesel Bongo and 30 in a petrol 2.0L, both 20 y.o. as a bit of a efficient driving nut. Seems like you get about 25pct more MPG on a diesel. (and Bongo weighs 2.2 tonnes whereas my car is probably about 1.1 tonne.)

They both sail the M.O.T. emissions test which is pretty cool for being 20 y.o.

Surely you have to roughly double the CO2 output of the petrol to even up the pollution vs MPG element of engines of equivalent size. (I appreciate the issue is NOx and particulants)

I am not sure what for example the MPG of a modern 2.0 petrol vs 2.0L diesel.... is it double mpg ?

And I think there should be on the spot fines for those who sit with their engines running stationary outside schools and roadside waiting. Because thta is simply idiotic and totally unnecessary. So if you act a twat you get fine.

Poisonous gas is clearly vey bad and to be avoided but it seems very unfair to blanket penalize. I bet there is up to 50pct worse emissions on those high mileage/thrashed but young, less than 5 y.o. smoky diesels (and petrols burning oil) than there is on an old well maintained vehicle. I am sure there are many of us here who service regular and never see ANY smoke from their Bongo's. (although the gas is probably invisible)

I suppose they are just going for the blanket easy option as usual rather than putting any effort into it and dealing with individual especially polluting offenders.

It comes down to if you have the money you can pollute all you like without any curbs whatsoever, whilst the less well off are hit where it hurts.