Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Technical questions and answers about the Mazda Bongo

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Chief Brody
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:06 pm

Just to keep things updated. Put leisure battery back in and fridge, lights and pump all work from it fine. I disconnected starter battery to ensure they were running from the leisure. I've discovered that the 10A ceramic fuse had blown in multimeter and that's why it was playing up. Once I get that sorted, it will help me work out of there is a parasitic drain on starter battery which I suspect as it seems to drop approx 0.2V over night. Perhaps the lights, pump and fridge work on leisure untill its either dead or not present and then switch to the starter. Not sure if that's normal for some set ups. I'd rather it didn't do that obviously. More investigation required.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:31 pm

The starter battery should settle at around 12.6 to 12.8 volts and stay like that for many weeks at a time if left unused, the standard discharge for the central locking and ECU backup etc is around 20-50mA, anything larger than 100mA should be at least understood as to which circuit is drawing it and why.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:55 pm

Thanks again. Well I have multimeter working. In the 10A setting I am getting a reading of 0.12, so 120mA? Too high. Wonder what the culprit is.

On another matter, is there an easy way to know which battery is running the fridge, pump and lights at any one time without blowing my meter? I'd also rather have it setup where the starter battery is unable to run these things at all.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:22 pm

I would want to know what it is that is drawing that total current myself. Start by checking the current drawn from the three smaller fuses on the terminal arm of the starter battery (not the 100 Amp as its bolted in) most likely it will be thru the 100 Amp however, but rather than pull that out you can then move down to the X02 box in the middle of then bonnet and check which circuit is drawing the current there working down the fuse tree till you get to the lowest level, assuming you know that you haven't added any extras etc. to the van (alarm systems etc). The wiring diagrams will help you trace the fuse tree to the lowest level http://www.g8dhe.net/bwm if you use Chrome then you will need to enable Flash for the site as well.

As to which battery is running things disconnect the -ve terminals and then see which one has to be disconnected to stop the fridge etc.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:56 pm

thanks geoff. Great reply. I went through all the fuses other than the 100amp fuse and found nothing. However, I then disconnected the leisure battery, the reading on the starter battery then dropped to near zero. i reconnected the leisure, the reading from the starter stayed close to zero. i then heard the relay clicking and the reading jumped right back up again. Any ideas?
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:00 pm

It sounds like the Split Charge relay is operating, some of them will operate when either battery is above 13.8 volts.
Do you have Solar panels or EHU connected and on ? If so then that is possibly causing the voltage to rise on the LB and the relay is operating, but really need to understand the whole setup, are you sure its a drain that you were measuring on the SB and not a charge going in perhaps, seen that before now !
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:58 pm

No EHU, no solar panel. Both batteries sitting at 12.6. This is what happens when I disconnect the leisure battery:

Starter reads 0.01amps
Relay clicks
Starter reads 0.1amps
Relay clicks
Starter reads 0.01
and so on

Measuring with the leisure battery connected as normal is strange. The drain can be as high as 0.42 then slowly starts to drop. Not sure how far it would drop but i've waited until it gets to 0.12. If i remove the probes and then put them back, the reading goes up a bit then starts to slowly fall. All very confusing. i'll report back.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:38 pm

Well the relay shouldn't be doing that, so I would look to replace that with a suitable kit like this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Split-Charge ... SwgPBb5iIa
There are others on eBay but some are known to be of very poor quality and some downright dangerous as they don't use a fuse for each battery.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:45 pm

Thanks Geoff. More expensive than I thought it would be but I want it to do the job right. I've emailed the seller with a few questions. The relay definitely looks done. It was randomly clicking this morning for no reason.

One thing I'm confused about is where are the fuses for the water pump, rear lights and fridge? These are switched via the power control panel . Is the control panel powered via the battery and if so where is it fused? Just learning as I go.

I'll keep thread updated when ok start to make progress.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:52 pm

Without knowing which control panel and system you have its rather difficult to tell! The Zig, PMS and PCE units are simply a 12 volt power supply connected to the EHU and then switches and fuses for the circuits and batteries they are connected to.

Ah I see one of the pictures shows a Sargent system I do have some of the manuals for them so let me know which version you have ?
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:49 pm

Hi Geoff. Yes I have a Sargent AC50. I did find a two page manual but didn't tell me too much. What confuses me is I can't see where the cable is from the conversion electrics. Surely that should be going to the leisure battery. All that is connected to the leisure battery is the lead from the relay. I can't find any fuses behind the AC50. I should point out that I also have EHU on three outside of the van. THANKS Geoff.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:50 pm

Oh right its just an AC50 on its own then, no other control unit hidden away EC155 / 200 or one with a year number, often not on display?

The AC50 manual is here but it sounds like you have it already http://www.g8dhe.net/bongo_images/zig/s ... n-data.pdf

If there is no other connection on the LB +ve terminal, then check for a feed from the chraging fuse close to the LB and the SCR itself, some installers save an extra fuse by using the charging fuse to protect the feed to the distribution fuse box, however this leads to some confusing results when the LB charging fuse blows!
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:25 pm

Thanks Geoff. No other unit present other than.....

Image

I assume this is to power the EHU and 240V socket.

There's is a cable going to the leisure battery. It seems to have been spliced into the cable from the relay.

Image

The top thicker cable goes from here straight through into the cab. Can't track it past there. Is this likely to be the cable from the AC50 carrying the fridge, water pump and lights? The lower thinner cable goes to the relay. So, does the 30A fuse protect the feed to the AC50 (fridge, rear led lights, water pump, 12V socket) as you said?

One other matter, the link you sent for a new relay system, does this one look ok?

https://www.rayneautomotive.co.uk/mazda ... y-kit.html

I only ask at it also comes with the fuse box for converting the blinds, radio etc onto the leisure battery. I also noted that the fuse for this kit is 100a. Big difference to what I have now. Is that a common size?

Sorry for all the questions Geoff. Hope you're keeping well at this trying time. Thanks again.
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by g8dhe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:12 pm

Right yes the wiring sounds like it does as you describe. However its not a good idea to feed the supply from that side of the fuse, the supply to the AC50 should come direct from the battery terminal on its OWN fuse not the charging fuse, whilst it will all work fine when the fuse blows things get complicated, first the battery won't being charged, secondly whilst the relay is operated all will seem fine, then a few minutes after the engine stops the relay will release and all power to the systems in the rear will disappear, this causes much confusion!!!

NO do not use Rayne Automotive!!!!
See this thread viewtopic.php?p=693203#p693203
Here is an example of there crimping;
Geoff
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Re: Bongo cut out, black smoke, ok on driveway

Post by Chief Brody » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:14 pm

Very helpful Geoff, thank you. Well that was close. Glad I waited for your thoughts before purchasing. I'll go for the one in your link. From searching I can see others here have bought the same. He also sells the the fuse circuit swap looms. All in all, not cheap, but I'm paying for quality and to have confidence in the kit. That's for that.

When I get the new kit, I'll ensure the feed to the AC50 is fused. Will try and work out what size a fuse is required. It's hard to get a good look at the wiring at the AC50 without removing the sink.
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