Bongo Fury

Don't want to tread on toes here, ......but..........

Need some help. Don't want to f***k this up.

Can anyone who has purchased a cylinder head from the Bongo shop AND fitted it (or is in the process), please send me a pm ASAP.

It's OK Steve, no toes "stood upon", I know about Jeff's dilemna, and will see what becomes of his discussions with the suppliers in the morning.

Ian wrote:It's OK Steve, no toes "stood upon", I know about Jeff's dilemna, and will see what becomes of his discussions with the suppliers in the morning.

Hi Ian
I wanted to do this via pm simply to avoid what appears to be dirty washing being aired in public, but is probably something very simple. I don't think you are aware of the full details.
What Jeff bought (or thought he did) was a built up head. The supplier is now telling us to take it to bits to check the cam pivot sockets for sucurity, incurring Jeff in the expense of hiring a valve spring compressor, not to mention the wasted time. Who's gonna pay for that? Jeff?
There is also a pack of valve stem seals which, if this head were built up, would be already installed (and out of view). Or is it standard practice to supply an extra set of these seals? I dunno. Would hate to ignore these seals, put it all back together, and ...........BANG.
There are 3 other 'O' rings in a pack with no indication of where they fit. And another lip seal seems to have been duplicated and unless someone tells us where it goes, how are we supposed to know? Searched through manual to no avail.
To be honest, I think it's simply a matter of some sort of diagram/explanation has been omitted from the delivery. (Hope so anyway).

To be fair, the head was delivered in SUPER quick time.

Hope you can understand dilema.

Ian wrote:It's OK Steve, no toes "stood upon", I know about Jeff's dilemna, and will see what becomes of his discussions with the suppliers in the morning.

One of the dilemas is that if we have to dismantle the head (as instructed by supplier) then will that make any guarantee void? It was bought as a built up head.

Pm sent.

I have spoken to the supplier directly and had all my queries answered for now - that said it is still not the package I thought - so the inconvenience factor is there - but they have provided good technical support after the order.
Thanks Steve et al for the input
Cheers
Jeff

PM sent

One thing I should mention is that it is generally assumed when purchasing a major engine component such as a head; that a degree of 'general' operating knowledge and fitting proceedures be at the expense of the purchaser.

All of you know what I went through; and greatest gift I can give back is what to avoid or look out out for.

While the work is fairly straight forward, I found the typical 'gottchas' associated from departing from routines and disiplines built up from many other jobs over the years.

Lesson #1; my UK supplier assumed as I did that the rocker seats and set screw locknuts were tight.
Lesson #2; my UK supplier assumed as I did AFTER I BLATENLY ASKED HIM, do I need to adjust the valves on the bench, reply not necessary, done at factory... ya right!
Lesson #3; record/document your retrofit with digital pictures and lots of them [who the hell doesn't have a camera these days?].
Lesson #4; assumes you collect, buy, rent, borrow correct tools and equipment for the job - no supplier can warranty against that!
Lesson #5; ask lots of questions when unfamiliar with the product and/or retrofitting proceedures.

Hey, if I haden't owned a shop for years and the connections locally that I still maintain; I would be quite hesitant to take this on.

While the Bongo is ecceptionally easy to work on in my humble opinion, its a pain in the pocket book to do it twice!!!

I am personally embarrased becuase I knew better than to trust a supplier's word on something they have no quality control on. I knew better and still F**k*d up royally!

These eBay packages do n ot come equipped like an 'Ikea' set of instructions. But don't despair; I could just about coach anyone now on the Bongo 2.5L WL-T head retrofit in my sleep after a great many Haig& Haig dimple [no longer available in Canada!].

Yes Yes, the Bongo has driven to drink more lately than anywhere I need to go. Hey, if mone shows up on eBay anytime soon... don't tell anyone who it can from... k?

LAte entry... My typing skills in this forum leave much to be desired; the amount of spelling infractions are appalling even to me folks! Please understand that I often forget to edit my typos and thus may appear to be a complete idiot behind the keyboard at times. I'll take this opportunity to apologise in advance for my rather verbose style - too many years as an IT consultant!

Cheers,
Dave

Its a difficult one this, from a supplier point of view they have to assume that the person doing the job knows what they are doing or they shouldn't be doing it & that they have the correct tools (& in my case scanners). Ignorance is no excuse etc. However that is no excuse to send out an assembled product that isn't ready to fit in my book.

I have issues all the time where I supply a transmission to a customer, only for them to either be on the phone every 5 mins as they clearly have no idea what they are doing OR I get the all too common 'it doesn't drive' call when they have broken the pump by fitting it incorrectly, despite there being basic do & don'ts sent out with each transmission. It often ends up in a row as the mechanic fitting it more often than not IS NEVER WRONG despite there being evidence to the contrary & no one wants to pay for it to be put right, despite having been told that if we recover the vehicle & it turns out to be a fitting error it all becomes chargeable. Don't get me wrong, no one gets it right all the time despite doing one's best, but we get an awful lot less trouble with the units we fit in our own workshops compared to any that are supplied loose.

It is often cheaper in the long run to get the guys that know the job to do the job.

progroup wrote:One thing I should mention is that it is generally assumed when purchasing a major engine component such as a head; that a degree of 'general' operating knowledge and fitting proceedures be at the expense of the purchaser.

All of you know what I went through; and greatest gift I can give back is what to avoid or look out out for.

While the work is fairly straight forward, I found the typical 'gottchas' associated from departing from routines and disiplines built up from many other jobs over the years.

Lesson #1; my UK supplier assumed as I did that the rocker seats and set screw locknuts were tight.
Lesson #2; my UK supplier assumed as I did AFTER I BLATENLY ASKED HIM, do I need to adjust the valves on the bench, reply not necessary, done at factory... ya right!
Lesson #3; record/document your retrofit with digital pictures and lots of them [who the hell doesn't have a camera these days?].
Lesson #4; assumes you collect, buy, rent, borrow correct tools and equipment for the job - no supplier can warranty against that!
Lesson #5; ask lots of questions when unfamiliar with the product and/or retrofitting proceedures.

Hey, if I haden't owned a shop for years and the connections locally that I still maintain; I would be quite hesitant to take this on.

While the Bongo is ecceptionally easy to work on in my humble opinion, its a pain in the pocket book to do it twice!!!

I am personally embarrased becuase I knew better than to trust a supplier's word on something they have no quality control on. I knew better and still F**k*d up royally!

These eBay packages do n ot come equipped like an 'Ikea' set of instructions. But don't despair; I could just about coach anyone now on the Bongo 2.5L WL-T head retrofit in my sleep after a great many Haig& Haig dimple [no longer available in Canada!].

Yes Yes, the Bongo has driven to drink more lately than anywhere I need to go. Hey, if mone shows up on eBay anytime soon... don't tell anyone who it can from... k?

Hi,
Can i ask how the clearances were on the replacement head you received from them?i have mine from the same supplier and bit worried now!will obviously re-check them even though they assured me they were set!
Also did you remove the oil feed dowel on the block or leave it in?will the head just tighten down on top of it?

glad your up and running!hopefully i will be soon too!
Also

progroup wrote:LAte entry... My typing skills in this forum leave much to be desired; the amount of spelling infractions are appalling even to me folks! Please understand that I often forget to edit my typos and thus may appear to be a complete idiot behind the keyboard at times. I'll take this opportunity to apologise in advance for my rather verbose style - too many years as an IT consultant!

Cheers,
Dave

Dave...don't apologise for typos and such...we all suffer from them .... ...what is more important is the input that you have given to this forun and I am sure that most of us can understand a spelling mistake when we see one...... ...but it is the content that is more important than any speeling mztake....

Just keep posting...we will forgive you...


Alan

Alacrity wrote: .......However that is no excuse to send out an assembled product that isn't ready to fit in my book.

On the head removal , we generally followed the manual and posts on the forum.

The main supplier problems we encountered were two fold.
1) The head is sold (as I understood it) as a finished unit ready to fit, apart from the odd seal. To have to strip down (on the say so of part of the supplier chain) the camshaft to 'check' that the supplier has actually tightened certain components in no way qualifies as 'ready to fit'.
The scribbled note we got advising us to check arrived 24 hours AFTER the head was received. Had it been someone more proficient at this task, the head would have been fitted before this notification arrived.

2) A pack of gaskets and seals is supplied with the head. Unfortunately, there is no packing list with the gaskets/seals. How is the customer supposed to know what they are for or where they all fit? To make things worse, it appears that some of the seals supplied are not needed because the head has alredy got some of them already installed. A note could be included with the package to let you know which are surplus to requirements. For example, a set of 12 valve stem seals are included, but the 'finished' head already has them fitted. It's worse that Ikea flat pack stuff. At least with Ikea you get a diagram - not always usefull, but at least it points the buyer in the right direction.

Ian tells us that he has had no folk complaining about this, however, I have had several pm's which say this is not uncommon.
It wouldn't take much effort to address this issue. Simple note of explanation of excess components supplied WITH the head would suffice. Diagram of where stuff fitted would be nice too, or even just a part description.
Because this is a major expense, and an involved task, I personally think it should be taken care of. (just a personal opinion)

widdowson2008 wrote:

Alacrity wrote: .......However that is no excuse to send out an assembled product that isn't ready to fit in my book.

On the head removal , we generally followed the manual and posts on the forum.

The main supplier problems we encountered were two fold.
1) The head is sold (as I understood it) as a finished unit ready to fit, apart from the odd seal. To have to strip down (on the say so of part of the supplier chain) the camshaft to 'check' that the supplier has actually tightened certain components in no way qualifies as 'ready to fit'.
The scribbled note we got advising us to check arrived 24 hours AFTER the head was received. Had it been someone more proficient at this task, the head would have been fitted before this notification arrived.

2) A pack of gaskets and seals is supplied with the head. Unfortunately, there is no packing list with the gaskets/seals. How is the customer supposed to know what they are for or where they all fit? To make things worse, it appears that some of the seals supplied are not needed because the head has alredy got some of them already installed. A note could be included with the package to let you know which are surplus to requirements. For example, a set of 12 valve stem seals are included, but the 'finished' head already has them fitted. It's worse that Ikea flat pack stuff. At least with Ikea you get a diagram - not always usefull, but at least it points the buyer in the right direction.

Ian tells us that he has had no folk complaining about this, however, I have had several pm's which say this is not uncommon.
It wouldn't take much effort to address this issue. Simple note of explanation of excess components supplied WITH the head would suffice. Diagram of where stuff fitted would be nice too, or even just a part description.
Because this is a major expense, and an involved task, I personally think it should be taken care of. (just a personal opinion)

An I totally get that! I agree with you because here in NA; most of our supplied parts come that way.
I did expect much more that the raw head because I was dealing with ebay. My first head was VOID of any extra seals or gaskets. I complained about it and so they sent me the extra 12 seals and nearly a whole full gasket set to boot!
I really appreciated the dowel [the 2nd time] because it did require me to take the head to a machine shop to extract the old one.

I agree they could do better; but I haven't a clue what their margins are either.
Ads for 'built' heads should be that, a fully built head no adjustments required!!!