Rubber stone-chip treatment v waxoyl

[The Wanderer]

Hi all

I need to get the underside of my Bongo sorted and have been looking around this forum for info. I have also called a few places to sound out what they do and how much they charge. One can pay £400 - 450 at a couple of well advertised places that include rust treatment and waxoyl/dinitrol , but I have also been quoted £80 by a Bongo friendly garage (although rather a long way from where I live). I spoke with a local-ish garage today and was told they use a rubber finish stone-chip rather than waxoyl as this is more protective. It is not injected into any panels etc though. Cost was around £130-£150 including some rust treatment if required but they seemed to suggest that unlike waxoyl, which would be problematic if applied over rust, stone-chip can be applied over slight rust without any problems. Does anyone have any experience with this or any useful comments to make please?

Ta very much in anticipation

[helen&tony]

Hi
Let me assure you that the only type of rust inhibitor to use is a wax- type, which knits itself if chipped. Waxoyl, Dinitrol, and others are fine, and similar to the wax injected in many modern cars as an inhibitor. Since manufacturers started using this system, they have been able to offer very long guarantees against corrosion...PROVIDED that the treatment is topped up every couple of years. Failure to have this done often invalidates guarantees, but if you follow the golden rule, and get it topped up every now and then, you should manage to INHIBIT corrosion.
Rubber, and old-style underseals WILL age-harden, crack, and allow moisture between the coating and the metal, and often allow complete disintegration of the metal. The first you will know about it is when you peel off a cracked piece of underseal, and find rusty metal attached to it, and a darned great hole where once was good metal.....Under no circumstances use anything other than a body wax or cavity wax.
Cheers
Helen

[mikeonb4c]

Hi
Let me assure you that the only type of rust inhibitor to use is a wax- type, which knits itself if chipped. Waxoyl, Dinitrol, and others are fine, and similar to the wax injected in many modern cars as an inhibitor. Since manufacturers started using this system, they have been able to offer very long guarantees against corrosion...PROVIDED that the treatment is topped up every couple of years. Failure to have this done often invalidates guarantees, but if you follow the golden rule, and get it topped up every now and then, you should manage to INHIBIT corrosion.
Rubber, and old-style underseals WILL age-harden, crack, and allow moisture between the coating and the metal, and often allow complete disintegration of the metal. The first you will know about it is when you peel off a cracked piece of underseal, and find rusty metal attached to it, and a darned great hole where once was good metal.....Under no circumstances use anything other than a body wax or cavity wax.
Cheers
Helen

Yup. Nothing to add to that. I think Helen has pretty much covered all the bases (oh and don't forget the value of getting the cavities and interior faces of e.g. whel arches sprayed with waxoyl).

[Doone]

The first you will know about it is when you peel off a cracked piece of underseal, and find rusty metal attached to it, and a darned great hole where once was good metal.....Under no circumstances use anything other than a body wax or cavity wax.

Yep, I agree too.

[Trouble at t'Mill]

Just thought I'd throw a spanner in the works.

Only kidding - I agree with the above

Two points:

(1) Waxoyl will seep into tiny crevices - which includes slightly rusty surfaces - by capillary action (I personally recommend thinning it more than the recommended amount when spraying into cavities). This, unfortunately, contradicts what your Bongo-friendly garage said about it being 'problematical if applied over rust' which I would find a bit worrying. Obviously, if the rust layer is thick and loose and it falls off, it'll take along with it whatever treatment that's on it! But, other than that, I can't think of a better material to use than 'wax'. (I painted the exposed suspension parts of my kit car with black paint and then gave it a light spray-over with thinned-waxoyl. After it dried, all mud and water just fell off it - it remained completely clean until the day I sold it. It's AMAZING to watch when you rinse your car off with a hose and absolutely not a drop stays behind on the treated surface.

(2) - and, I think, much more important, you can underseal your car until the cows come home, but if you don't spray inside your body cavities (ooh-er, misses) then you WILL end up with rusty arches, door panels and sills. End of.

It's Waxoyl for me, every time.

(Seriously consider buying a cheap 'airless' sprayer for around £25 and a couple of tins of 'black' Waxoyl (~£25 each) and DIYing it. There's a thread on this forum which has lots of details on how to approach this task. Your car will stink for a couple of weeks afterwards, but - boy - the sense of achievement is amazing!)

[westonwarrior]

What they said

[The Wanderer]

OK that's pretty definitely a vote of no confidence for the stone-chip treatment then! Seriously, many thanks for all your comments, I will consider DIY approach but may opt for a 'proper' job. When I met Big Daddy Cain at the Bongo Bash he recommended Wheelquick, which although it's rather a long way from me, could be an option as I may be visiting relatives up that way soon. Does anyone know how the treatment he uses compares with the 'Rustmaster' guys in St Albans for instance? Obviously a lot cheaper I gather, but is it different or essentially the same thing?

[mikeonb4c]

OK that's pretty definitely a vote of no confidence for the stone-chip treatment then! Seriously, many thanks for all your comments, I will consider DIY approach but may opt for a 'proper' job. When I met Big Daddy Cain at the Bongo Bash he recommended Wheelquick, which although it's rather a long way from me, could be an option as I may be visiting relatives up that way soon. Does anyone know how the treatment he uses compares with the 'Rustmaster' guys in St Albans for instance? Obviously a lot cheaper I gather, but is it different or essentially the same thing?

It won't be the same high spec stuff as Rustmaster (and preparation - they use a drying room, but with Wheelquick you'd want to get the job done after a spell of dry weather for best results) but knowing Wheelquick it will be properly done (mind you I daresay Discount Trucks at Newbury will do it properly too, if they offer to do it at all). The main thing I've been told with standard waxoyl is that you need to keep an eye on it and retreat external areas prone to erosion through driven spray and road dirt. But the bulk of it, including any that has been sprayed into cavities, should be good for life, and the touch ups you should be able to do yourself if you can trust yourself to get a round tuit (which I can't!). I went for a Chassis Clean (Rustmaster type) job as they are local to me and a bit cheaper too I think. They even offered a courtesy car at the time mine was done. The job is 'for life' though even they recommend a check up every 3 years (which mine is now due for)

[Morag]

Here's Myfanwy getting her bottom looked after at Rustmaster, seriously top job!

[brorabongo]

Here's Myfanwy getting her bottom looked after at Rustmaster, seriously top job!

Did one forget something?


http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... it=Myfanwy

[dobby]

The rear arches seem to be the worst for rust. To get into the area inside the rear arches, you need to take the back lights out and spray from there and remove the cubby hole things in the rear side trims and spray into there. I've just order dinitrol cavity wax from http://www.frost.c.uk.

Watch out for waxoyl as it can be a bit messy and as has been already said it needs thinning

[The Wanderer]

Thanks again for all your thoughts. Not sure I can go for the full £400+ treatment. I spoke to Discount Trucks who quoted a very reasonable price so am thinking of dropping the van in when I'm down that way soon. Actually Montague also quoted a pretty good price. I will try to ensure the bits you have highlighted get treated along with the more obvious areas.

Cheers

Geoff

[MikeyC4]

On this same topic; I recently MOT'd and discovered that the spare was flat - and very rusty. When I removed it (to wire brush and spray-hammerite it back to health) I discovered that the guy I bought it from had sprayed stone-chip AROUND the spare wheel area, but not underneath! Some nice big flakes of used-to-be-metal now adorn the street where it was parked.

There are couple of holes where holes shouldn't be, and the arches are starting to go. Can anybody recommend a body shop in the Portsmouth / Hayling / South Hampshire area that can deal with the necessaary welding, please?