Flat starter battery... help please from a newbie?

[mountainchris]

Hi folks,

Got a converted V6 Freda and have replaced the starter battery (2 weeks ago) on it because the old one was at the end of its life... Problem is that the van has been parked up for 4 days and went to turn the ignition key this morning and NOTHING! not even ticking.

Have done a search on here and checked all the fuses between the leisure and starter battery as thought it may have been this, they are all fine.

Starter battery is currently off the van and on a trickle charger to hopefully bring it back to life but need some help in trying to trace why a brand new battery should flatten so quickly after being sat for 4 days?

I am not that techie minded when it comes to electrics so simple explanations would be greatly appreciated.

Hope someone out there can help?

PS It may or may not have anything to do with this but the previous starter battery got replaced after going flat and needing a jump start to get the van going?

[dunslair]

Do you know what sort of split charge system you have with the leisure battery? Do you have any after market audio equipment fitted? (a few folk were having problems earlier in the year with audio equipment draining the battery)

[mountainchris]

Cheers for the reply, I have a Kenwood stereo fitted but I have connected that up to the leisure battery along with the blinds following the patching method I found on this site somewhere, so don't think it could be that?

Not sure what split charge system I have? Will have a quick look now and get back to you...

Its got a 70amp Durite relay under the bonnet, doesn't look like a kit but perhaps a converters own system? The thing in the rear is a Sargent AC50 panel which controls the water pump etc...

[g8dhe]

Was the new battery fully charged after it was installed, has it had a few runs since it was put in ?
In these temperatures it could be as simple as the new battery not having anywhere near a full charge and then combined with the low temperature it hasn't enough to turn the engine over.

If the the VSR relays is rated for 70Amps then its a good design, the only ones I know that use that level of ratings are the Willinton kits or a marine/narrow boat installer!

[dandywarhol]

A voltmeter would be handy to check if the battery is being charged by the alternator when running - a less reliable way is to see if the interior light is brighter when the engine is running - that indicates some charge is present.

[mountainchris]

Was the new battery fully charged after it was installed, has it had a few runs since it was put in ?
In these temperatures it could be as simple as the new battery not having anywhere near a full charge and then combined with the low temperature it hasn't enough to turn the engine over.

If the the VSR relays is rated for 70Amps then its a good design, the only ones I know that use that level of ratings are the Willinton kits or a marine/narrow boat installer!

Yes the van has had a few good runs since being fitted and starter battery appeared to be doing fine with the starting etc in this cold weather up until I have left the van sitting for 4 days.

Glad to hear the relay is a good one, just pondering whether the previous flat battery could have damaged the relay in some way so that the leisure battery is discharging the starter battery?

Thanks for your help...

[mountainchris]

A voltmeter would be handy to check if the battery is being charged by the alternator when running - a less reliable way is to see if the interior light is brighter when the engine is running - that indicates some charge is present.

Don't have a voltmeter unfortunately. Could the alternator be shot? Although I would imagine the starter battery would not have discharged completely over 4 days if this had been the case? Can't do the test with the lights and engine running at the moment as battery is on a charger...

thanks for your help

[dandywarhol]

Might be worth spending under a tenner on a multimeter Chris - learning to use it can be fun too..........

[mountainchris]

Yep seems that might be a good idea, at least I can try and trace the source of this problem... perhaps!?

Any recommendations?

[dandywarhol]

There y' go - only a fiver
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Mod ... bID=1&QV=Y

[mountainchris]

Cheers dandywarhol... saves me 'swimming' through pages of volmeters!

If anybody has any other suggestions as to potential causes of this problem they would be most welcome...

[g8dhe]

.. just pondering whether the previous flat battery could have damaged the relay in some way so that the leisure battery is discharging the starter battery?

No the relay won't be damaged because of a poor S/B. Could the battery have frozen, not sure what part of the country you in its worth sticking it in your profile so that people can make suggestions regarding geographical ideas!

If your getting a meter then that will be the main thing to identify the problem. Start by measuring the voltage BEFORE starting the engine at the battery terminals, it should be about 12.6 volts after a good charge, possibly a little higher if its only just been taken off the charger. Once the engine starts and the alternator is charging then it will be about 14 volts. If the voltage is ever less than 11 volts when there is no load on the battery i.e. everything off, then something is wrong.

[mountainchris]

Frozen battery... well I am in North Wales (updated profile I hope) and its been cold but never heard of batteries freezing before? Would that give the symptoms of nothing happening when the ignition key is turned? Sorry for the daft questions!

Seems like the voltmeter might hold the key... lets just hope when I put the battery back on tomorrow it actually starts... not sure what it can be if it doesn't (apart from perhaps a duff battery?).

[francophile1947]

A flat battery can freeze, but charged ones don't. As yours appears to be flat, freezing is a possibility

[mountainchris]

Its amazing what you learn on here... Should the charger be able to recover a frozen battery? Would putting it on a radiator help?!