Bongo Fury

Alacrity wrote:If it were in my shop I would wire what is called a signal monitor onto the solenoid wiring so you can watch the switching of the sols & therefore the shifts. If the sols are being switched & the box doesn't change then you have an internal fault, solenoids or sticking valves. If the sols are not being commanded to shift then the problem lies outside the box. Personally I suspect the latter, but I am not sure there is a transmission issues at all, I think the percieved transmission issue is a symptom of another engine related problem. On a more modern system you can see all this with a decent scanner, on the Bongo you have to start splicing into the wiring & watching the LED's!

In your own words you say "it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle". To me that indicates that you are having to use too much throttle to get the vehicle to perform, the fact that it changes when you back off indicates that everthing is working as it should, but a simple monitoring of the TPS signal with a meter will confirm if the TPS is working as it should. I have never known a TPS mis-behave only when cold but I have known hundreds of engines do so.

What an excellent post (as ever). It all makes so much sense, and should be very reassuring to the owner. How many other owners of ordinary cars would have had the benefit of such expert advice.

Alacrity wrote:If it were in my shop I would wire what is called a signal monitor onto the solenoid wiring so you can watch the switching of the sols & therefore the shifts. If the sols are being switched & the box doesn't change then you have an internal fault, solenoids or sticking valves. If the sols are not being commanded to shift then the problem lies outside the box. Personally I suspect the latter, but I am not sure there is a transmission issues at all, I think the percieved transmission issue is a symptom of another engine related problem. On a more modern system you can see all this with a decent scanner, on the Bongo you have to start splicing into the wiring & watching the LED's!

In your own words you say "it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle". To me that indicates that you are having to use too much throttle to get the vehicle to perform, the fact that it changes when you back off indicates that everthing is working as it should, but a simple monitoring of the TPS signal with a meter will confirm if the TPS is working as it should. I have never known a TPS mis-behave only when cold but I have known hundreds of engines do so.

I can see things are getting very technical but I do get the general idea of what you are saying. I wonder if the engine is underpowered when cold only? The reason I say this is because she runs like a dream once warmed up properly. I am going to let the engine run for five minutes before driving away today to see whether the fault disappears. I will report back.

Thanks

Hello mikeonb4c,

I can't believe the level of support this forum provides for its users! I have had my Ford Freda since June 2007 and absolutely love it. I am hoping to keep it for much longer, as my second vehicle, because it is great for leisure.

Thanks for all your help!!

Fordfreda wrote:

Alacrity wrote:If it were in my shop I would wire what is called a signal monitor onto the solenoid wiring so you can watch the switching of the sols & therefore the shifts. If the sols are being switched & the box doesn't change then you have an internal fault, solenoids or sticking valves. If the sols are not being commanded to shift then the problem lies outside the box. Personally I suspect the latter, but I am not sure there is a transmission issues at all, I think the percieved transmission issue is a symptom of another engine related problem. On a more modern system you can see all this with a decent scanner, on the Bongo you have to start splicing into the wiring & watching the LED's!

In your own words you say "it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle". To me that indicates that you are having to use too much throttle to get the vehicle to perform, the fact that it changes when you back off indicates that everthing is working as it should, but a simple monitoring of the TPS signal with a meter will confirm if the TPS is working as it should. I have never known a TPS mis-behave only when cold but I have known hundreds of engines do so.

I can see things are getting very technical but I do get the general idea of what you are saying. I wonder if the engine is underpowered when cold only? The reason I say this is because she runs like a dream once warmed up properly. I am going to let the engine run for five minutes before driving away today to see whether the fault disappears. I will report back.

Thanks

Having tried that, it might also be interesting (if you can be bothered) to repeat the experiment (from a really cold engine, to repeat as close as poss do it tomorrow morning) but with the gear selector in 'D'. Only do it if you are prepared to sit in the car (safety). But when I've done this I've found the gearbox was then ready to go into lockup much sooner (maybe straight away) after driving off. What I'm thinking is that between them, these two experiments MIGHT give a pointer as to whether it is something to do with the engine sensors (experiment 1) or the gearbox sensors (experiment 2) that is at the heart of the problem.

PS - just read your reply. Yes, I think the clue is that something about the Bongo attracts some really interesting people. They all then find the company stimulating and rewarding, and so it grows. One thing I will say about myself is that I insist I have an eye for a classic. I can clearly recall how, when idly googling for camping stuff (with no serious plans) on the kids PC, I accidentally came across a picture of a Bongo. It took about 1 millisecond for the image of a Bongo, and the price, to make its mark. I spent about 3 months trying to find reasons NOT to buy one, but managed to find an answer (with the help of this club) that overcame all of them. I still remember thinking 'what have I done' when I first brought the Bongo home (against real opposition from my wife and eldest daughter) and put it on the drive. We all love it now

It may be worth checking the banjo filter is clear & maybe sticking a new fuel filter in, there may just be enough restriction when cold to cause issues? Also maybe check the fuel pump & see if there are any leaking seals?

Okay I have done both tests on the transmission. On the first morning I left the engine running on the hardstand for 5 minutes. The next morning I warmed it up in drive with the brake on as suggested... Both times the box operated absolutely as it should do, and even went into top straightaway! I am coming to the conclusion that, because this is temperature related, I have a sticking valve problem in the transmission itself. I ran this idea passed an automatic transmission engineer and he said that it was quite possible that the valve block, being aluminium, was expanding once warm, just enough to free the sticking valve. The only way forward is to drop the sump down and check the state of the fluid, filter and magnet to see if there is any debris there. If so, then this could indicate further problems within the transmission. On the other hand, as suggested earlier in this thread, a fluid change and service may do my Freda the world of good.

I will report back as soon as I know. In the meantime it's fingers-crossed time!

Fordfreda wrote:Okay I have done both tests on the transmission. On the first morning I left the engine running on the hardstand for 5 minutes. The next morning I warmed it up in drive with the brake on as suggested... Both times the box operated absolutely as it should do, and even went into top straightaway! I am coming to the conclusion that, because this is temperature related, I have a sticking valve problem in the transmission itself. I ran this idea passed an automatic transmission engineer and he said that it was quite possible that the valve block, being aluminium, was expanding once warm, just enough to free the sticking valve. The only way forward is to drop the sump down and check the state of the fluid, filter and magnet to see if there is any debris there. If so, then this could indicate further problems within the transmission. On the other hand, as suggested earlier in this thread, a fluid change and service may do my Freda the world of good.

I will report back as soon as I know. In the meantime it's fingers-crossed time!

Fingers crossed for you that it will turn out to be something not too difficult to fix - keep us posted

Could still be an engine issue. You have warmed the engine up haven't you. So if you have an engine problem only when very cold you will have got round it by warming it up before driving. As mentioned before the key to it all is your statement "it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle". So how does a stuck up valvebody free off when you ease off the throttle, hmmm.

Again as I said earlier it could be sticking solenoids, but I have never known it on one of these tranny's & the same applies to v/b sticking when cold & only effecting the upshift. However, I may be wrong on this, but if it is a sticking v/b then you sadly have much bigger issues & will be looking at a recon trans & converter sometime in the near future.

A sticking solenoid should trigger a flashing hold light on the dash -- if there's no flashing hold light it's surely unlikely to be a transmission solenoid problem.

A sticking solenoid should trigger a flashing hold light on the dash -- if there's no flashing hold light it's surely unlikely to be a transmission solenoid problem.

Wrong. It will not.

An electically failed solenoid will trigger the hold light to flash but a hyraulically sticking one will not. The bongo trans electronics are very crude & there is no way the trans ECU knows what actual gear the trans is in. It only knows what it has asked for. Later more sophisticated systems use an input & output speed sensor to monitor the actual gear as well as the gear commanded. These systems will flag up an error with a sticking solenoid, the Bongo one will not.

Hello everyone - frequest visitor and first time poster here.

For what it's worth I had exactly these symptons - staying in first when cold, driving normally when warm. I put it down to the extreme cold in January and ignored it - didn't do it every day either. Then one day my Bongo did it when fully warm - briefly dropped into 1st gear for a few minutes before once again working normally. What I then did was rig up a wire into the diagnostics port as described elsewhere on this forum. This showed fault code 12 I think - it was the TPS one anyway. Hold light had not flashed. Changed the TPS for a used one at a local Bongo friendly garage. Job done about 6 weeks ago now and never done it since !

Well that's interesting. Hopefully the TPS is his problem then, not heard about one doing this but it is good to hear about it. I shall log that here at work for future reference. You learn something new every day! Thank you for posting that info.

I take it your hold light wasn't working at all, even when you operated the button on the gear stick??

danboy99 wrote:Hello everyone - frequest visitor and first time poster here.

For what it's worth I had exactly these symptons - staying in first when cold, driving normally when warm. I put it down to the extreme cold in January and ignored it - didn't do it every day either. Then one day my Bongo did it when fully warm - briefly dropped into 1st gear for a few minutes before once again working normally. What I then did was rig up a wire into the diagnostics port as described elsewhere on this forum. This showed fault code 12 I think - it was the TPS one anyway. Hold light had not flashed. Changed the TPS for a used one at a local Bongo friendly garage. Job done about 6 weeks ago now and never done it since !

I'm always tempted to include TPS in the list of suspects for funny gearbox behaviours but without knowing why (I'm not a techie), except that they seem to have been implicated in a small but growing number of mysterious incidents like the one being discussed here. Out of interest, when you fitted your new one how did you go about makng sure it was correctly adjusted (I believe there is a screw slot allowing movement, and you have to set that right, or have I imagiend it?)

Hold light was working normally with the button I think - not sure if that implies something else.

Ref setting up the replacement TPS - this was done by the friendly garage mechanic by setting it to a certain voltage (not sure what I'm afraid) - he had various notes scribbled down which he referred to - only took him about 10 minutes in total. I believe he set it to where he knew his own Bongo was set at - anyway worked straight away, hasn't done it since and only cost £40 incl of second hand part and labour, which is pretty good compared with cost of new TPS.

Alacrity wrote:Well that's interesting. Hopefully the TPS is his problem then, not heard about one doing this but it is good to hear about it. I shall log that here at work for future reference. You learn something new every day! Thank you for posting that info.

I take it your hold light wasn't working at all, even when you operated the button on the gear stick??

I'd the same problem a while back Geoff - no hold light flashes but fault 12 when checking the ECU. - although my faults weren't all when cold but mainly during warm up. A new TPs sorted it