Cooling system heat test results

[missfixit70]

I thought the lower line was stat opening temp Steve? getting me confused now It'd be clearer to people if you said that's stat opening temp & the top line is stat fully open
Here's one to chuck in the melting pot, was bleeding mine today (don't ask, daily occurence ATM thanks to silicon hoses ) turning the heater on when it's up around the top end 70- 80ish degrees actually makes the engine heat up quicker As you say Steve, goes against what we thought was happening with how the heater circuit affects engine temps.

[widdowson2008]

I thought the lower line was stat opening temp Steve? getting me confused now It'd be clearer to people if you said that's stat opening temp & the top line is stat fully open
Here's one to chuck in the melting pot, was bleeding mine today (don't ask, daily occurence ATM thanks to silicon hoses ) turning the heater on when it's up around the top end 70- 80ish degrees actually makes the engine heat up quicker As you say Steve, goes against what we thought was happening with how the heater circuit affects engine temps.

Your wish is my command Oh wise one.
.....and yes you're soooooooo right - buggers up a couple of current beliefs doesn't it? But facts are facts - just got to try and make sense of 'em - I'm working on it Perhaps when Stig-H has been up a hill or two, things may slot into place. C'mon Helen - gerrup a hill mit fat ladies (or - to keep Lorna happy - fat blokes, or perhaps franco could offer his services )

[mikeonb4c]

I'm afraid I'm with Rihanna on this one...


But seriously, thats an awesome piece of R&D on the cryptic characterisitics of the Bongo cooling system. What's needed at the end of it all is a plain English idiots guide to how it works and what to do to avoid trouble and have a happy life together with your Bongo.

[widdowson2008]

.........piece of R&D on the cryptic characterisitics of the Bongo cooling system. What's needed at the end of it all is a plain English idiots guide to how it works and what to do to avoid trouble and have a happy life together with your Bongo.

Many thanks Mike. As you know, I am trying to put a cooling system fact sheet together. It is based on facts, and not on assumptions. It WILL come eventually. I was waiting for the results from Stig-H, (especially the hill climb data). I will not publish the fact sheet until I am absolutely sure that it is factual and unfortunately, as has been suggested by the last set of data, our current understanding of the system is slightly wrong. Not much, but nevertheless not completely accurate. The hill data should confirm one way or the other.
The fact sheet is being arranged with different entry levels so that folk with a more technical thirst (how individual components work and what they are for) will be able to delve into what some may find a complete turn-off. At the other end, there is a level which explains things in a more simplified manner.

Need to get it right first. You would not believe how many people have made contributions to this. The most difficult area is the ECU and I am waiting for James (rhinoman) to crack this.

[mikeonb4c]

.........piece of R&D on the cryptic characterisitics of the Bongo cooling system. What's needed at the end of it all is a plain English idiots guide to how it works and what to do to avoid trouble and have a happy life together with your Bongo.

Many thanks Mike. As you know, I am trying to put a cooling system fact sheet together. It is based on facts, and not on assumptions. It WILL come eventually. I was waiting for the results from Stig-H, (especially the hill climb data). I will not publish the fact sheet until I am absolutely sure that it is factual and unfortunately, as has been suggested by the last set of data, our current understanding of the system is slightly wrong. Not much, but nevertheless not completely accurate. The hill data should confirm one way or the other.
The fact sheet is being arranged with different entry levels so that folk with a more technical thirst (how individual components work and what they are for) will be able to delve into what some may find a complete turn-off. At the other end, there is a level which explains things in a more simplified manner.

Need to get it right first. You would not believe how many people have made contributions to this. The most difficult area is the ECU and I am waiting for James (rhinoman) to crack this.

If only Mazda could be persuaded to look over and approve it - I never got a reply from Mazda Japan (silly old idealist that I am )

[mikexgough]

Just been away in the Peak District.........some different from normal readings from my Mason modified gauge.... Must be some chat material for the bash....

[mikeonb4c]

Just been away in the Peak District.........some different from normal readings from my Mason modified gauge.... Must be some chat material for the bash....

Poor old thing's not used to being away from the flatlands

[mikexgough]

Just been away in the Peak District.........some different from normal readings from my Mason modified gauge.... Must be some chat material for the bash....

Poor old thing's not used to being away from the flatlands

Exactly Mike...... got to 70% on the temp gauge...... one thing though..... no effect on fuel consumption either, climbing them there hills.....
Got some Diesel in Buxton at £1.15.......

[mikeonb4c]

Just been away in the Peak District.........some different from normal readings from my Mason modified gauge.... Must be some chat material for the bash....

Poor old thing's not used to being away from the flatlands

Exactly Mike...... got to 70% on the temp gauge...... one thing though..... no effect on fuel consumption either, climbing them there hills.....
Got some Diesel in Buxton at £1.15.......

Remarkable. I think you should donate your Bongo to science so we can cut it up and find out how it works so well No? Thought as much

I (hope I've) mended my fuel gauge (sender) today. If I've done the job wrong, chances are my fuel gauge will read full permanently

[mikexgough]

Poor old thing's not used to being away from the flatlands

Exactly Mike...... got to 70% on the temp gauge...... one thing though..... no effect on fuel consumption either, climbing them there hills.....
Got some Diesel in Buxton at £1.15....... [/quote]


Remarkable. I think you should donate your Bongo to science so we can cut it up and find out how it works so well No? Thought as much

I (hope I've) mended my fuel gauge (sender) today. If I've done the job wrong, chances are my fuel gauge will read full permanently [/quote]
Slightly "off base" with the subject..... Spoke to a T5 owner...with the push up roof at Ashbourne...09 plate....he fails to better 27 mpg....2 wd..too... mine you the guy with the C plate Westie Joker...can't better 20 mpg...on petrol.....he did have a heath robinson means of insulation and roof stays but that's another story

[Boots]

Hi All,

Most interesting.

I am having the usual (I expect) cooling problem with the Bongo after fitting the replacement turba and then trying to bleed the cooling system.

Its runable at the moment but will get warm to about 4 o'clock on a Mason alarm modded temp guage up hill etc tho drops back if I slow to 55mph(ish) from 60-70 ish.

These speeds for testing only I usual cruise at 55mph so alls well even with an air lock or? in the system.

I'm mainly a saab man and their problem with the older models was the auto fan switch failing so the electric fan wouldnt come on. This was always solved with an extra live feed 'n' dash switch so as to cool down quickly when towing or stuck in traffic especialy with the turbo models.

Saab had a very nice bleed valve right on to of the engine so it was just run heat up and open valve squirt close and do it a couple of times like brake bleeding, job done.


So after that waffle my discussion points are:

Why bother having a stat in the system at all? Due to the odd way it works it would appear that its nearly allways blocked by the stat unless high(ish) speed or temperatures are achived.


How about driver operated cooling fans?

One or both of the above may be an answer?


Catch the conversation later off with a mate for a sunday scrappy stroll!


Cheers

Boots

[mikeonb4c]

Hi All,

Most interesting.

I am having the usual (I expect) cooling problem with the Bongo after fitting the replacement turba and then trying to bleed the cooling system.

Its runable at the moment but will get warm to about 4 o'clock on a Mason alarm modded temp guage up hill etc tho drops back if I slow to 55mph(ish) from 60-70 ish.

These speeds for testing only I usual cruise at 55mph so alls well even with an air lock or? in the system.

I'm mainly a saab man and their problem with the older models was the auto fan switch failing so the electric fan wouldnt come on. This was always solved with an extra live feed 'n' dash switch so as to cool down quickly when towing or stuck in traffic especialy with the turbo models.

Saab had a very nice bleed valve right on to of the engine so it was just run heat up and open valve squirt close and do it a couple of times like brake bleeding, job done.


So after that waffle my discussion points are:

Why bother having a stat in the system at all? Due to the odd way it works it would appear that its nearly allways blocked by the stat unless high(ish) speed or temperatures are achived.


How about driver operated cooling fans?

One or both of the above may be an answer?


Catch the conversation later off with a mate for a sunday scrappy stroll!


Cheers

Boots

Well I tend to agree with you. I've fitted a manual over-ride switch to the scavenger fan (some are concerned I'll mess up the ECU but it hasn't in 3 years and I dont' see how an extra feed on the 12v supply side would backfeed into the switching side of the ECU driven fan relay). My reasons for doing it were to:

• keep cabin cooler in hot weather when static in traffic (the sensor will kick in at some point but I fancied it earlier on than that)
• keep odour of diesel out of cab when stationary. I have always had a v. slight leak from my pump and its easily dealt with by putting a rag on the engine undertray and changing it every few months, plus using the over-ride switch if I ever smell anything in the cab and that would have the missus complaining

It all works a treat. With the rad fans though, I think I would focus on replacing the standard sensors if they became dodgy as we are into proper engine temp. management at that point. If the system is working properly it ought not to need manual intervention. I do sometimes think though that I should fit a decent engine/coolant temp system just so I can keep an eye on whether all components are working and ensuring the job is done properly. Might get a round tuit

[widdowson2008]

......warm to about 4 o'clock on a Mason alarm modded temp guage
Why bother having a stat in the system at all? Due to the odd way it works ......Boots

• keep cabin cooler in hot weather when static in traffic (the sensor will kick in at some point but I fancied it earlier on than that)
• keep odour of diesel out of cab when stationary.................putting a rag on the engine undertray and changing it every few months, ............I ever smell anything in the cab

Hi Boots - my opinions only - others will disagree, but..............
- 4 o'clock? think your engine may have melted at that point, never mind overheated. Are you sure you read the right o'clock? Never believed in the o'clock scale personally - I prefer degrees C
- stats there to get the engine up to temperature quickly, and then keep it at that temperature. If yours isn't doing this then you need to find out why and fix it rather than ignoring/plastering over the problem.

Hi Mike
Is it me being too simplistic or
- Cant you put the air-con on to keep cabin cooler?
- If you fixed the fuel pump leak, you wouldn't get the diesel odour or need the rag

Sorry.........I'm in a strange mood today

[Boots]

Hi Steve,

Yep one mans 'O'clock anothers ? C. Just going by others 'O'c description of guage indication.

Another description, when doing what I did to see how the cooling was working the guage needle moved to about its own width from the line on the right of the guage, the one before the space and then 'H' for melt down! the mason alarm also started sounding and on slowing all improved as the temp dropped.

My 'B' is running allmost as well as it did before the turbo went and I had to top up 'n' bleed the coolant, so I expect I'm running the same as some others and will have to bleed & bleed till its right. If Wheelquick can fit me in before the BB then they are welcome to my custom.

You may be right, meltdown may have occured but I'll have to wait and see as its running better everytime I use it after replacing the turbo.

When I was at Wheelquick I spoke with another owner who Mike snr had advised to remove the stat and all was well. Most of his motoring last year had been in Spain and other hot places but he was not having any problems at the moment in the UK.
However he was abroad when we had the big freeze, which was exeptional, once in ???? years so it wont happen again till at least 2011!

My point about the stat is, I realise it helps the engine get up to temp, but as it appears from other posts, if its just a little bit faulty then its a block in the system so why not try running without?

The fans when having manual switching or just override, if thats possible, would just be another 'something' to help, like the mason alarm which gives a true(?) indication of temp so if its rising above the usual we can then make a decission as to what to do, slow down a bit, which I have heard others mention or perhaps have a brew stop especialy when towing to allow all to cool down.

Just talking points, I'm looking forward to the full results of your testing as they have indicated to those wiser than me, that it would appear that the cooling system has its own way of working which is not as logical as assumed prior to your research.


All the best


Boots

P.S. Nothing at the scrappy exept the only heavy rain of the day so far and yes it started on our arrival and finished 5mins after we left!

[mikeonb4c]

Hi Mike
Is it me being too simplistic or
- Cant you put the air-con on to keep cabin cooler?
- If you fixed the fuel pump leak, you wouldn't get the diesel odour or need the rag

Sorry.........I'm in a strange mood today

You can indeed put the aircon on (though with this mod you may need to less often) but you are asking it to overcome a greater volume of heat, plus it will not help much with the radiant heat coming off the large surface area both front seat occupants are sat right next too.

It is true that fixing the leak (which is v minor BTW) would effect a cure. But a week spent off work and on my back when I tried to do it (its not an easy job for an old bloke with biggish hands), and a quote of around £180 in labour to have it done (others have got it done cheaper but...) and the applause and approval from the mechanic for my ingenuity have decided me against it for now. But of course it was the removing heat thing that was the reason I fitted it anyway - the smell issue was a secondary benefit. I could have added as a 3rd benefit that I like to think my electrical components are prevented from cooking in a heat bath whenever I decided to put the scav. fan on

Don't worry about strange moods - I'm always in one these days

In fact, I just thought of a new strapline for Bongos:

Bongos....driven by people with strange moods