Bongo Fury

Superb folks, a tribute to the site, well done all.

It might be worth checking the concentration of coolant bessie. A weak concentrate, or wrong coolant type i believe can crud up the alarms sensor screws... I've replaced the screws on mine (thanks Mikexgough) for better quality items.

Ah! Allan actually went out himself to check? Good man! Ignore any of my follow up waffle then Bessie... your in good hands there.

Just slightly.
I've seen a few posts about the screw problem and I saw THIS POST where Kincaid said he used red coolant. As you said, replacing the screw seems to solve it.

It certainly appears to have cured it Lorna To be fair it wasn't a huge issue, just an annoyance. I re-checked the screws some time after replacement, the threads were as clean as when they were fitted The carplan red longlife coolant i use seems to keep the cooling system very clean indeed I wonder if it's only the original (or a certain batch) of LCA screws that are prone to attracting a film on them if the red is used? Or if it develops over a very long time? I don't really know... but i'll keep a wary eye on it...

bigdaddycain wrote:It certainly appears to have cured it Lorna To be fair it wasn't a huge issue, just an annoyance. I re-checked the screws some time after replacement, the threads were as clean as when they were fitted The carplan red longlife coolant i use seems to keep the cooling system very clean indeed I wonder if it's only the original (or a certain batch) of LCA screws that are prone to attracting a film on them if the red is used? Or if it develops over a very long time? I don't really know... but i'll keep a wary eye on it...

The pitting sounds a bit like electrolytic corrosion. I wonder if the LCA was developed in the days of ethylene glycol coolant (which I still use, as it happens, and never had an LCA problem) and whatever alloy/metal they used for the screws was fine with that, but something in the red coolant affects them.

mikeonb4c wrote:

bigdaddycain wrote:It certainly appears to have cured it Lorna To be fair it wasn't a huge issue, just an annoyance. I re-checked the screws some time after replacement, the threads were as clean as when they were fitted The carplan red longlife coolant i use seems to keep the cooling system very clean indeed I wonder if it's only the original (or a certain batch) of LCA screws that are prone to attracting a film on them if the red is used? Or if it develops over a very long time? I don't really know... but i'll keep a wary eye on it...

The pitting sounds a bit like electrolytic corrosion. I wonder if the LCA was developed in the days of ethylene glycol coolant (which I still use, as it happens, and never had an LCA problem) and whatever alloy/metal they used for the screws was fine with that, but something in the red coolant affects them.

this shows OAT the bottom row and IAT the top row......... effects on different materials......

OAT is what is commonly Red in colour in the UK and commonplace in the EU and Japan(albeit all colours in Jpn) and the IAT is the G11 Bluecol Pre '98 UK vehicle normal coolants.
Indeed the Red coolant OAT based does coat the system with a "film" to prevent corrosion and also the boiling temperature is 18c higher than IAT which is not recommended for WL-T or Asian sourced vehicles.
As for the coolant alarm and OAT, I can't say if it was developed in the pre '98 times or not and if OAT is causing issues.

mikexgough wrote:IAT which is not recommended for WL-T or Asian sourced vehicles.

I think you should always back up a statement like that with a link to authoritative (e.g. Mazda) data, so that newcomers can be confident this advice comes from the horses mouth. I find it a bit hard to believe that the old fashioned antifreezes (is IAT ethylene glycol?) were considered unsuitable for the Bongo (a relatively old fashioned car) by Mazda. Basic ethylene glycol stuff will need changing every 2 years for that to apply, as opposed to 5yrs for extended life stuff, but it would be wrong to cause panic if none is warranted.

On the issue of boiling points, I'm not how important the higher boiling point of OAT is provided that both types of antifreeze prevent boiling within normal operating temps. I can see that when things do get hotter and outside normal range, OAT may conduct away more heat due to higher temp gradient in the radiator etc., but the engine should not be working outside its proper temps anyway. Maybe it's the thermal capacity and conductivity of the OAT coolant that is the key, as if it is better than IAT, then this will be very relevant.

Perhaps a solution to this worrying symptom might be a coolant sensor that detects the decaying current through the coolant tank probes over time, and warns you if it thinks that it's likely that since you last hit the "flush" button, your probes have developed have a build up of residue. You could make it beep, too!

mikeonb4c wrote: and whatever alloy/metal they used for the screws was fine with that, but something in the red coolant affects them.

Not so in my case mike... The HEADS of the screws had the same deposits on them also, they aren't in contact with the red coolant i use. Like i said earlier, maybe they were a set of duff screws or something, all sorted now thanks to Mikexgough.

mikeonb4c wrote:

mikexgough wrote:IAT which is not recommended for WL-T or Asian sourced vehicles.

I think you should always back up a statement like that with a link to authoritative (e.g. Mazda) data, so that newcomers can be confident this advice comes from the horses mouth. I find it a bit hard to believe that the old fashioned antifreezes (is IAT ethylene glycol?) were considered unsuitable for the Bongo (a relatively old fashioned car) by Mazda. Basic ethylene glycol stuff will need changing every 2 years for that to apply, as opposed to 5yrs for extended life stuff, but it would be wrong to cause panic if none is warranted.

On the issue of boiling points, I'm not how important the higher boiling point of OAT is provided that both types of antifreeze prevent boiling within normal operating temps. I can see that when things do get hotter and outside normal range, OAT may conduct away more heat due to higher temp gradient in the radiator etc., but the engine should not be working outside its proper temps anyway. Maybe it's the thermal capacity and conductivity of the OAT coolant that is the key, as if it is better than IAT, then this will be very relevant.

Mike, not wishing to go over the many Coolant type posts I have made....... Recently I posted on a previous Coolant thread, Mazda use a coolant called FL-22 pre 2005 it was Green colour and 5year, 60,000 mile life and 2006 on it has been updated and is now coloured Blue when mixed in the tank (purple in concentrate form) and has an 11 year 125,000 mile life. Both of these coolants are made by Golden Cruiser in Japan, the latest FL-22 is also used by Ford and branded Motorcraft. http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/23692.aspx shows the bottles/Pt No's
I guess it's another item for a group buy but I would get it from Germany as it's cheaper from there including delivery

Coolants from the Bongo's homeland are OAT based and when the Bongo was built the 5 year green FL-22 was used, this was equivalent to an EU/VW denoted coolant of G12 type. The coolants used in Japan are silicate, borate and phosphate free as is G12 and more recently G12+ and G12++ coolants. The latest FL-22 is of the G12++ type and as VW/PSA etc tend to use it as it's a "Lifetime" coolant and easy in the service bay.. or rather they think it's in for the life of the vehicle.

Having done research in the UK for the closest chemically to FL-22, I found Car Plan Red to be the closest and this was confirmed by Tetrosyl themselves via e-mail (happy to forward to anyone but they text is in one of my coolant posts) and they also confirmed that it was correct for my vehicle. You will also note that in the Coolant Fact sheet Premium red is also recommended. I have since found from a recent purchase of G12+ red coolant by Comma for an Vauxhall Astra that came in for some work that that is also suitable for the Bongo. Obviously the FL-22 pre 2006 is still available and a group buy could be possible on that and it's reasonably priced from Germany

IAT.... I am not saying you can't use it, by all means go ahead and usual disclaimers apply. IAT is obviously used in older vehicles that have Brass,copper & solder in the cooling system especially radiators, as OAT will eat them in no time. Hence why Bongo's use Aluminium and Plastic radiators as have Asian sourced vehicles have done since the late 80's, needless to say my pal uses good old Bluecol in his A30 Austin.
As for issues with Coolant alarm screws.. dunno...not up with chemical reactions of coolant and vehicle electrics, not my bag. All I know is some owners have had issues and the OAT coolant will coat the screws as it does all the cooling system, DBO's recent posts on Waterpump etc show how clean the inside of his engine is after using premium red, so like I say ...dunno why the screws are going like that.

bigdaddycain wrote:

mikeonb4c wrote: and whatever alloy/metal they used for the screws was fine with that, but something in the red coolant affects them.

Not so in my case mike... The HEADS of the screws had the same deposits on them also, they aren't in contact with the red coolant i use. Like i said earlier, maybe they were a set of duff screws or something, all sorted now thanks to Mikexgough.

I think that might still fit with electrolytic corrosion (think of the stories about accelerated rusting on cars casued by electric currents - wasn't that one of the risks of a DIY LCA using a higher current than the Haydn one?).

mikexgough wrote:

mikeonb4c wrote:

mikexgough wrote:IAT which is not recommended for WL-T or Asian sourced vehicles.

I think you should always back up a statement like that with a link to authoritative (e.g. Mazda) data, so that newcomers can be confident this advice comes from the horses mouth. I find it a bit hard to believe that the old fashioned antifreezes (is IAT ethylene glycol?) were considered unsuitable for the Bongo (a relatively old fashioned car) by Mazda. Basic ethylene glycol stuff will need changing every 2 years for that to apply, as opposed to 5yrs for extended life stuff, but it would be wrong to cause panic if none is warranted.

On the issue of boiling points, I'm not how important the higher boiling point of OAT is provided that both types of antifreeze prevent boiling within normal operating temps. I can see that when things do get hotter and outside normal range, OAT may conduct away more heat due to higher temp gradient in the radiator etc., but the engine should not be working outside its proper temps anyway. Maybe it's the thermal capacity and conductivity of the OAT coolant that is the key, as if it is better than IAT, then this will be very relevant.

Mike, not wishing to go over the many Coolant type posts I have made....... Recently I posted on a previous Coolant thread, Mazda use a coolant called FL-22 pre 2005 it was Green colour and 5year, 60,000 mile life and 2006 on it has been updated and is now coloured Blue when mixed in the tank (purple in concentrate form) and has an 11 year 125,000 mile life. Both of these coolants are made by Golden Cruiser in Japan, the latest FL-22 is also used by Ford and branded Motorcraft. http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/23692.aspx shows the bottles/Pt No's
I guess it's another item for a group buy but I would get it from Germany as it's cheaper from there including delivery

Coolants from the Bongo's homeland are OAT based and when the Bongo was built the 5 year green FL-22 was used, this was equivalent to an EU/VW denoted coolant of G12 type. The coolants used in Japan are silicate, borate and phosphate free as is G12 and more recently G12+ and G12++ coolants. The latest FL-22 is of the G12++ type and as VW/PSA etc tend to use it as it's a "Lifetime" coolant and easy in the service bay.. or rather they think it's in for the life of the vehicle.

Having done research in the UK for the closest chemically to FL-22, I found Car Plan Red to be the closest and this was confirmed by Tetrosyl themselves via e-mail (happy to forward to anyone but they text is in one of my coolant posts) and they also confirmed that it was correct for my vehicle. You will also note that in the Coolant Fact sheet Premium red is also recommended. I have since found from a recent purchase of G12+ red coolant by Comma for an Vauxhall Astra that came in for some work that that is also suitable for the Bongo. Obviously the FL-22 pre 2006 is still available and a group buy could be possible on that and it's reasonably priced from Germany

IAT.... I am not saying you can't use it, by all means go ahead and usual disclaimers apply. IAT is obviously used in older vehicles that have Brass,copper & solder in the cooling system especially radiators, as OAT will eat them in no time. Hence why Bongo's use Aluminium and Plastic radiators as have Asian sourced vehicles have done since the late 80's, needless to say my pal uses good old Bluecol in his A30 Austin.
As for issues with Coolant alarm screws.. dunno...not up with chemical reactions of coolant and vehicle electrics, not my bag. All I know is some owners have had issues and the OAT coolant will coat the screws as it does all the cooling system, DBO's recent posts on Waterpump etc show how clean the inside of his engine is after using premium red, so like I say ...dunno why the screws are going like that.

Sorry Mike. What I meant was: keep it short, and just insert a link to the source so people can see your view is well researched. Put the link in when making a strong assertion. That way, your statement will be one people should be happy to rely on. New comers won't know anything about all the posts you've written in the past (unless you create a factsheet, and you can put links to authoritative sources in that).

Interested to read BDC has changed the screws and not had an issue since - I know it's a basic question but can you let me know exactly the type of screws to replace the existing with as I'm likely to try this as mine are getting 'filmed up' again.

Kincaid wrote:Interested to read BDC has changed the screws and not had an issue since - I know it's a basic question but can you let me know exactly the type of screws to replace the existing with as I'm likely to try this as mine are getting 'filmed up' again.

Hi I think the screws are .....

Stainless Steel A4 316 stainless.

Cheers.