Dirty Brown Header Tank

[widdowson2008]

Apologies re slots. I need to make mods to info supplied now that I have my own tank open. (Like you, I was working from TGPs pics, which don't tell the whole story - quite interesting)
Will post tomorrow with further detail.
However, '10mm nuts cannot be used on all chambers' still stands.

[munroman]

If you look at that tank above.....you will see some dirt in the bottom....this can be removed by whatever method you decide to have a go with....BUT....if you notice the rest of the tank it is the actual plastic which is stained all the way through.....no amount of anything will get rid of that..
This is what my reply above was saying......Fredalier, who started this topic took great exception to me pointing this out and sent me a abusive PM which it seems I would be breaking forum rules by reproducing....this PM is the reason he has been banned..... and the rest of his antics on here.

I wonder what guise our 'Kiwi Fruit' will assume next - have some sympathy, how would you feel if you lost your nuts?

[mikexgough]

Apologies re slots. I need to make mods to info supplied now that I have my own tank open. (Like you, I was working from TGPs pics, which don't tell the whole story - quite interesting)
Will post tomorrow with further detail.
However, '10mm nuts cannot be used on all chambers' still stands.

At least we all know the tank cannot be completely cleaned 100% with nuts, is it likely that the acid suggestion from our other contributor from down under would work or would it be that the "baffle" chambers restrict it too much to clean effectively?

[bigdaddycain]

If you look at that tank above.....you will see some dirt in the bottom....this can be removed by whatever method you decide to have a go with....BUT....if you notice the rest of the tank it is the actual plastic which is stained all the way through.....no amount of anything will get rid of that..
This is what my reply above was saying......Fredalier, who started this topic took great exception to me pointing this out and sent me a abusive PM which it seems I would be breaking forum rules by reproducing....this PM is the reason he has been banned..... and the rest of his antics on here.

Sorry Haydn, but that isn't strictly accurate... The de-gassing/expansion tank can appear to be stained throughout, but i happen to KNOW that it can be cleaned effectively, and have seen this for myself. The badly contaminated tanks can APPEAR to be stained, but that is just the opaqueness being altered by the interior staining, generally caused by mis-matching of coolants. (that's when the trouble starts)

(note how few come directly from japan with stained tanks? It's only when us brits with lack of coolant knowledge cause the issues that make the tanks so badly stained).

I'm afraid our general lack of knowledge with the bongo's very effective coolant system is the problem,not an inherent problem with the system itself! We go bunging in the same colour coolant as it already has and think everything will be honkey dorey... BIG MISTAKE!

[bigdaddycain]

Degas tank for engine cooling system
United States Patent 5329889
A degas tank for the cooling system of an internal combustion engine wherein the degas tank is formed from two plastic parts each of which has a plurality of cavities formed therein that are defined by ribs and in which certain of the ribs are provided with open-ended slots so when the two parts of the degas tank are joined together, pairs of open-ended slots cooperate to form an opening through which coolant can flow between adjacent cavities.


sounds familiar

Very familiar!

[bigdaddycain]

Apologies re slots. I need to make mods to info supplied now that I have my own tank open. (Like you, I was working from TGPs pics, which don't tell the whole story - quite interesting)
Will post tomorrow with further detail.
However, '10mm nuts cannot be used on all chambers' still stands.

At least we all know the tank cannot be completely cleaned 100% with nuts, is it likely that the acid suggestion from our other contributor from down under would work or would it be that the "baffle" chambers restrict it too much to clean effectively?

I'll try to find out what tablets were used to clean the bottle out Mike...

[mikexgough]

Degas tank for engine cooling system
United States Patent 5329889
A degas tank for the cooling system of an internal combustion engine wherein the degas tank is formed from two plastic parts each of which has a plurality of cavities formed therein that are defined by ribs and in which certain of the ribs are provided with open-ended slots so when the two parts of the degas tank are joined together, pairs of open-ended slots cooperate to form an opening through which coolant can flow between adjacent cavities.


sounds familiar

Very familiar!

Yep.........

Current active deaeration and degassing systems for Automotive cooling systems utilise a coolant bottle having a degassing chamber through which a part of the engine cooling fluid is passed continuously for the purpose of accumulating and separating gas, i.e. air from the coolant.
Such deaeration systems work best when there is a designated air space in the coolant bottle for collection of any air removed from the coolant. Such systems work with high efficiency when the coolant bottle is elevated significantly above the level of coolant in the rest of the cooling system particularly the coolant level in the engine so that any air collected is maintained in the coolant bottle.
When the coolant bottle is not located well above the rest of the circuit, air collected in the coolant bottle can back flow into the engine's coolant circuit after operation of the engine is terminated.

[bigdaddycain]

Along the same lines as the nuts method.... An exact amount of small ballbearings, a general neutral detergent added to the mix, holes well and truly bunged,chuck the bottle into a pillowcase with a few pairs of old socks to act as buffers, then tie up the pillowcase good and proper, then chuck it in the tumble dryer...

[bigdaddycain]

Degas tank for engine cooling system
United States Patent 5329889
A degas tank for the cooling system of an internal combustion engine wherein the degas tank is formed from two plastic parts each of which has a plurality of cavities formed therein that are defined by ribs and in which certain of the ribs are provided with open-ended slots so when the two parts of the degas tank are joined together, pairs of open-ended slots cooperate to form an opening through which coolant can flow between adjacent cavities.


sounds familiar

Very familiar!

Yep.........

Current active deaeration and degassing systems for Automotive cooling systems utilise a coolant bottle having a degassing chamber through which a part of the engine cooling fluid is passed continuously for the purpose of accumulating and separating gas, i.e. air from the coolant.
Such deaeration systems work best when there is a designated air space in the coolant bottle for collection of any air removed from the coolant. Such systems work with high efficiency when the coolant bottle is elevated significantly above the level of coolant in the rest of the cooling system particularly the coolant level in the engine so that any air collected is maintained in the coolant bottle.
When the coolant bottle is not located well above the rest of the circuit, air collected in the coolant bottle can back flow into the engine's coolant circuit after operation of the engine is terminated.

Makes a lot of sense Mike... As you know the bongo pretty much bleeds itself on the whole, (though i'm still of the opinion that INITIALLY the bongo cannot be bled 100% upon initial start up, a fair amount of the bleeding occurs naturally as the sytem cools) That's why i leave the cap off the expansion tank (once the sytem is cool enough) overnight, and sure enough, the level has dropped the following morning (no... nothing to do with volumetric expansion/contraction of the coolant due to heat differences ) It's to do with the air being expelled as the hot air rises up through the sytem and naturally finds it's easiest escape route (the expansion tank) as per your explanation of the de-gassing tank Mike.

[The Great Pretender]

Regarding the tank, the baffles in each part (top and bottom) are not connected there is a gap.
There may be a misunderstanding about the 10mm nuts, not thread diameter but spanner size ?
Steve your statement 'It's to do with the air being expelled as the hot air rises up through the sytem and naturally finds it's easiest escape route (the expansion tank) as per your explanation of the de-gassing tank Mike. ' is an enigma. As the outlet hose from the head drops to the bottom of the Bongo before rising to the rad how does the air travel down hill? I have had air bubble out when stopped (from the heater circuit maybe?) I'm still not convinced air can be expelled from the head unless done manually.

[mikexgough]

There may be a misunderstanding about the 10mm nuts, not thread diameter but spanner size ?[/colour]

That is what I thought......

[widdowson2008]

Regarding the tank, the baffles in each part (top and bottom) are not connected there is a gap.Not on mine Mel. I am looking at my tank as I type and the baffles of the 2 sections are definitely welded together. Absolutely no gap whatsoever. (I removed only one corner of the tank so I can see the inside.) Does this mean there could be more than one tank design.
There may be a misunderstanding about the 10mm nuts, not thread diameter but spanner size ? Still wouldn't go through the narrower 4mm slots
Steve your statement Dont think this is mine Mel, unless I said it one evening after a bottle of plonk 'It's to do with the air being expelled as the hot air rises up through the sytem and naturally finds it's easiest escape route (the expansion tank) as per your explanation of the de-gassing tank Mike. ' is an enigma. As the outlet hose from the head drops to the bottom of the Bongo before rising to the rad how does the air travel down hill? I have had air bubble out when stopped (from the heater circuit maybe?) I'm still not convinced air can be expelled from the head unless done manually.

[mikexgough]

Regarding the tank, the baffles in each part (top and bottom) are not connected there is a gap.Not on mine Mel. I am looking at my tank as I type and the baffles of the 2 sections are definitely welded together. Absolutely no gap whatsoever. (I removed only one corner of the tank so I can see the inside.) Does this mean there could be more than one tank design.
There may be a misunderstanding about the 10mm nuts, not thread diameter but spanner size ? Still wouldn't go through the narrower 4mm slots
Steve your statement Dont think this is mine Mel, unless I said it one evening after a bottle of plonk 'It's to do with the air being expelled as the hot air rises up through the sytem and naturally finds it's easiest escape route (the expansion tank) as per your explanation of the de-gassing tank Mike. ' is an enigma. As the outlet hose from the head drops to the bottom of the Bongo before rising to the rad how does the air travel down hill? I have had air bubble out when stopped (from the heater circuit maybe?) I'm still not convinced air can be expelled from the head unless done manually.

But if you used Jam nuts the dimensions for then M6 nuts mean they are 10mm across the flats for a spanner yet only 2.5mm thick/wide or however you wish to describe it.....so in theory could go through the 4mm slots.....
on a quick search I found.......Hexagon AF 10mmThread Pitch 1.0mm Nut Depth 3mm Applicable Standard DIN439 Material Grade A2 / 304 stainless, cold-forged.....yep .5mm deeper than I had found in my nuts store......but still 1mm thinner than the 4mm slot...... just a thought....

[widdowson2008]

Mike
Yes, the thinner lock nut (jam nut) WILL go through the 4mm slots (with a WHOLE 0.5mm clearance), and CAN, with a hell of a lot of patience be jiggled through to the other chambers. No question about it, but no one in their right mind would try it for the following reason:
Do you remember those puzzles as a child - about 3" square x 1/4" thick that were a maze with a small ball bearing inside? The object was to get the ball through the maze.
Imagine trying to do this puzzle but instead of the nice round ball, there was an hexagonal shape to move around - and not one, but NINE.
Then try and imagine trying to get each one of the 9 nuts into its own chamber. To compound the problem, to get from one chamber to the next, you need to negotiate a step (the slots are not floor to ceiling), turning the 2 dimensional puzzle into a 3 dimensional one.
Lets assume you succeed (which I doubt you would have the patience for - I certainly wouldn't) and you finished up with a nice clean tank. Now your task is to get them out - same amount of work but in reverse.

I am so confident it cant be done that I will give £100 CASH to anyone who can do this in under 2 hours - just get the 9 nuts in the 9 compartments and get them back out again (but I will need to actually see it being done)
Perhaps this could be turned into an annual fun event at the bash, or even used as a fund raiser.
I do have a slight advantage here. I can see inside the tank so I know what a problem you will have.

Edit: I'll give the £100 to a charity of your choice.

[helen&tony]

Hi
Not long ago, we sold our old Opel Astra we bought as a runabout...the plastic header tank made the Bongo one look clean and fresh...it was the colour of mud, so it's not just coolant issues, but hot coolant degrading the plastic, and I suspect that the tanks are discoloured right through the plastic, but should anyone wish to try cleaning, then the only way is to use what we used to use for cleaning spent ammunition cases. Personally, I used a tumbler, but this wouldn't suit the plastic header tank. The alternative was a kind of tub, that had a motor underneath which vibrated the tub. If you were to cut down a plastic bucket to a suitable height, then fit a vibrating mechanism run by a small motor underneath, you would have the same device but larger. Next, locate a supply of steel "pins", which are basically odd bits of spatter from steel casting, and bung this in to cover the tank being cleaned, fill with water and detergent and leave running for a day.
Cleaning cartridge cases, the result of this would be a dirtyish streaky residue which could be washed off , mostly. Wash and empty your plastic tank, and dry in a warm place....THOROUGHLY dry.
Next, pop the tank back into the bucket...thoroughly dried, and fill with walnut husk...a well known polishing medium....run for a few days.
Cartridge cases would look like new after this lot, but I would imagine disappointing results with the header tank, as I reckon they are stained all the way through!
If anyone wants to send me a slice of old tank, I'll happily run it in my tumbler and try to prove myself wrong
Cheers
Helen