Siezed bongo?

[TonyBongo]

Cat 2 immobiliser. It interrupts 2 circuits. Starter and something else I presume.

Going to try to jump starter directly to see if the starter is ok when installed (was ok on bench). Not that I expect that to have any affect on immobiliser.

[jimmo62]

I would definitely check the fuel cutoff solenoid as that would be the logical 2nd thing to immobilise. You could just wire it to a permanent +12v feed as a temporary test. Then bypass the immobiliser for the starter with a piece of wire so it cranks over?

[sotal]

Can you not just trace the wire back from the fob pickup sensor that you touch? That should go straight back to the immobiliser control box. It may well have an inline fuse hidden somewhere or could be wired into the main fuse box.

As has already been said the two obvious positions to immobilise are the cut off solenoid and the starter motor. If you find the control box for the immobiliser then these would be able to bypass at that point.

If you can't find the box then test for voltages as above - which should prove if power is getting to the starter and the fuel cut off solenoid.

[TonyBongo]

I've been trying to trace the immobiliser back from the key fob, but I think it's really well hidden - it's really hard to look up under the footwell, even lying on back with drivers seat flat! Not helped by fact that drivers door is fairly tight to garage wall! I'll have another go later.


Anyone know if it is safe to connect live direct to starter motor fitted in vehicle to see if it turns? Wondering if duff starter motor (despite bench testing ok) has blown the immobiliser.



Cheers

Tony

[sotal]

It is a possibility - I think the immobiliser outputs are normally rated to around 10amps, so if a fault caused it to pull more then that might blow something.

If you pull the wires off the starter motor then you shouldn't be able to damage anything by hooking it straight up to the battery.

[TonyBongo]

Made some progress I think!!

After some painful furtling around under the drivers footwell, and recording HD slowmo video on an iPhone, I spotted a 10amp fuse taped into the wiring loom. It was hard to spot as the fuse is pointing backwards. Will try to remove it tomorrow (it's taped in and hard to recach), but testing it in place suggests that it's blown, so I suspect that this is where the immobiliser is cut into the loom and the fuse has blown as a result of a problem with the starter motor (despite it bench testing ok).

Cheers

Tony

[nth]

If you are direct feeding the starter motor just remember to make sure the gearbox is 100% in P or N
I doubt the starter motor has blown the fuse for the immobiliser, all the immobiliser is really is 2 relays. the immobiliser fuse only gives power to the primary side of the relays, the starter wiring is connected to the secondary side of the relay so effectively the starter motor is not really connected electrically to the immobiliser circuitry, it only interrupts its own power supply. if there was a problem with the starter circuit it should blow the circuits original fuse.
I always find bench testing a starter motor is not really a good indication of its condition anyway, on a bench there is no load on it so it appears to spin over great, when you put is back on the car you can then find there is not enough power to pull the skin of a rice pudding never mind turn the engine. Also there is no problem back feeding the starter circuit with all the wiring still connected to it, I do it nearly every day of the week

[TonyBongo]

Finally managed to remove the suspect fuse the other night, but it turns out it was fine and seemingly isn’t the cause of the problem, so the immobiliser still isn’t working and consequently I can’t make much progress getting the engine running.

Most of the wiring loom is wrapped in black tape, including the wiring added in to install the immobiliser, so I’ve still not been able to find the immobiliser itself and see if there is another fuse closer to it. I’ve removed the glovebox so it’s easy to see under the passenger footwell, the ECU and behind the stereo, but it’s much harder to see all of the wiring on the drivers side where I suspect the immobiliser is hidden. Any advice on improving access in that area – e.g. how to remove the plastic below the dashboard om the dashboard or to the left of the drivers knees? Also, could a fault on the ECU be the cause of the loss of power to the immobiliser and is there any way of diagnosing it?

I’ve also noticed a couple of other issues:

1. The coolant in the header tank is below minimum. It is still just above the top of the smaller pipe that leads from the header tank. Given that I was not aware of any problem with the engine when the vehicle was parked in the garage a few years back, could this be indicative of a problem or might it have simply ‘evaporated’ over time or been dangerously low when the vehicle was parked up (makes note to self to get low coolant alarm). What coolant do I need to top up the vehicle and is there risk of an airlock?

2. There appears to be some black engine oil on the drivers side of the engine (the top of the oil patch seems to be around the same height as the top of the fuel pump and slightly forward of it). It’s hard to tell how old it is, and although it looks black it’s hard to imagine that it is that new given that the vehicle has been in the garage for a few years and at most I’ve turned the engine over via the starter motor (without it picking up) a dozen times in the past could of weeks. Oil level on the dipstick is normal and I don’t think there is any sign of water or ‘mayonnaise’ in the oil. Should I be worried?

[rita]

Does the Fuel Stop Solenoid have a 12v supply when ignition is switched on?

[Bongolia]

Normally yes. The electrical supply is cut when the ignition is in the key off position allowing the valve to drop and close off the fuel supply
Did you check for a supply at the starter?

[Bongolia]

Just read your previous post. Although I am a mechanic of 40 years standing I have no experience of Bongos, so any info I can help with is generic rather than Bongo specific.
If you have a supply to the starter when key is in start position then you can forget about the immobilizer for now. You need to get the engine turning over. Immobilizers on this type of diesel will normally intercept the stop solenoid and the starter solenoid feed, if your vehicle has an electrical lift pump to bring the fuel up from the tank to the injector pump then this may also have been intercepted by the immo.
A previous post by Jimmo62 has the approach I would take next.
Reading your previous post regarding the low coolant level could have bearing. If the coolant was at the correct level when it was parked up then unless you have a leak somewhere it should still be at the same level now. Did you notice the coolant level before you initial starting attempt was it correct then?
It is possible that the head gasket is letting by and this could fill the bore with coolant and on the compression stroke it would form a hydraulic lock and the engine would stop. This is more prominent on a diesel because of the high compression ratio. On petrol engines they can normally kick past this.
However you need to crank the engine so I would follow Jimmo62 advise next and forget the immo for the time being.

[Bongolia]

A P.S. on that. Leave the cap off of the expansion tank whilst you try to crank it this will help the coolant in the bore to leave the bore out of the same way it came in and I would mark the tank with tippex at its current level. If it does fire up then dont rev it too much let it run for a few seconds then turn it off and check the level against your mark.
If you have a leaky head gasket and it does hydraulic lock then you could damage the con rod. This is common on VW t25s

[TonyBongo]

It's fixed!!!

Pleased to say my Bongo is up and running again - the problem was just an exceptionally rare immobiliser fault (fitter had never seen one fail in 15 years).

Once bypassed, the Bongo started up like the last time it ran was yesterday - not years ago!

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.

Tony

[mikeonb4c]

It's fixed!!!

Pleased to say my Bongo is up and running again - the problem was just an exceptionally rare immobiliser fault (fitter had never seen one fail in 15 years).

Once bypassed, the Bongo started up like the last time it ran was yesterday - not years ago!

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.

Tony

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy - what great news. Never sure if immobilisers (and their remote control fobs) on Bongos aren't more trouble than help!

What a good thing engine strip down hadn't commenced!

Enjoy your Bongoing anew