coolant flow - (follow up to cooling diagram)

[widdowson2008]

Got in one! nice animation Thank you- rad caps have been doing exactly that for yonks - its mainly to prevent the hoses collapsing (imploding)
I've known of "mechanics" to have replaced in the following order to solve an overheating problem..........
Thermostat first, Water pump' Radiator, Head gasket
...............and still the engine overheated - what he had omitted to check (through lack of understanding his job) was the radiator cap seal !!!
If the system can't pressurise then the coolant boils at 108 or so deg (depending on antifreeze type/strength) the unpressurised coolant soon turns to steam!

This happened to me on holiday with almost disasterous results. A screaming TM-2 saved the day. After a top hose/coolant change, I checked the tank level before I started EVERY TIME. What I failed to do on one such check, was make sure the cap was put back SECURELY, and the result was exactly how you just described. What a pratt I felt. Never happened again!!!!!

Glad TGP brought this up cos without it, the work I have done is incomplete. Made me think - this is the ONLY part of the system which is actually designed to be open to atmosphere at some time in the cycle, so it makes total sense to make sure it's in good working order.

Wonder how many of the 'boil/coolant loss from the header tank' episodes can put down to this?

[mikexgough]

Just a bit to add from the "Why the head cracks question"...... I have had a reply to an enquiry I made which says......."The pre-2001 WL had a head cracking issue which was remedied by Ford with new parts. Therefore what you describe is/was a common problem on the older WL's but almost unheard of on WL's built since 2001. The head and exhaust manifold were redesigned."
Doesn't give the absolute reason but does suggest the exhaust side of the engine being a troublesome area.....

After some chatting to Ranger/BT-50 and Bongo owners....... the consensus is to Change the Thermostat at every coolant change and on the cooling system use pukka parts not pattern ones......as for coolant....well that choice is yours....
I guess there needs to be some research into getting Pukka parts at Pattern part prices.......as I have mentioned before..... An example is the Denso brand engine fan sensor.....as used by factory and packaged as Mazda....can be purchased for £14 retail.....the Thermostat is made by Tama and packaged Mazda....you get the drift... you buy the the parts Mazda use in the makers packaging .......not the marked up 1-200% by being in a Mazda packet/box...
If we can get the parts at pattern prices then there will be less Bongo's having problems....

[widdowson2008]

I guess there needs to be some research into getting Pukka parts at Pattern part prices.......An example is the Denso brand engine fan sensor.....as used by factory and packaged as Mazda....can be purchased for £14 retail.....the Thermostat is made by Tama and packaged Mazda....you get the drift... you buy the the parts Mazda use in the makers packaging .......not the marked up 1-200% by being in a Mazda packet/box...
If we can get the parts at pattern prices then there will be less Bongo's having problems....

So true Mike - Same thing happens at Supermarkets. Sainsbury Corn Flakes packaging looks almost identical to Kellogs, but there is a massive difference in taste. Same with Heinz tomato ketchup. We're being conditioned to accept the inferior brand. (or perhaps we have just got used to it. )

Back to your point - research 'into getting Pukka parts' - couldn't agree more - especially the bit about using genuine parts.
May have been done before but these things get burried and lost in the middle of a thread and are a real pain to find.
I think the excercise would be WELL worth it. If soeone is willing to do this, then is there any way such a usefull piece of research could be READILY accessible? Up front - in yer face?

[Ron Miel]

I guess there needs to be some research into getting Pukka parts at Pattern part prices.......An example is the Denso brand engine fan sensor.....as used by factory and packaged as Mazda....can be purchased for £14 retail.....the Thermostat is made by Tama and packaged Mazda....you get the drift... you buy the the parts Mazda use in the makers packaging .......not the marked up 1-200% by being in a Mazda packet/box...
If we can get the parts at pattern prices then there will be less Bongo's having problems....

So true Mike - Same thing happens at Supermarkets. Sainsbury Corn Flakes packaging looks almost identical to Kellogs, but there is a massive difference in taste. Same with Heinz tomato ketchup. We're being conditioned to accept the inferior brand. (or perhaps we have just got used to it. )

Back to your point - research 'into getting Pukka parts' - couldn't agree more - especially the bit about using genuine parts.
May have been done before but these things get burried and lost in the middle of a thread and are a real pain to find.
I think the excercise would be WELL worth it. If soeone is willing to do this, then is there any way such a usefull piece of research could be READILY accessible? Up front - in yer face?

How about Ian doing it? He could then source and sell them to us (at BF member discount prices?).

[widdowson2008]

Don't think it would be quite that simple a task TBH Ron. Take the stat for example. On the surface, the pattern stat looks identical to a Mazda one, but like the Heinz/Sainsbury ketchup analogy, it's the missing ingedient that makes the difference.
When pattern parts are made, they are generally produced to the same specification as the original - material, tolerances, etc. The pattern stat is different in (at least) one aspect. It has the extra stem seal which makes it (IMHO) the better (though more expensive) option.
Whoever took on this task would need to be able to SPOT the difference(s) - a time consuming excercise.

[Ron Miel]

Understood Steve, although still perhaps useful to involve Ian, in the hope he could/would source then-selected OEM parts for the Bongo Shop?

[widdowson2008]

Understood Steve, although still perhaps useful to involve Ian, in the hope he could/would source then-selected OEM parts for the Bongo Shop?

Totally agree with that. Just thought of a possible issue for Ian and that is one of keeping stocks of these bits. Not a cheap thing to do methinks.
Ian - are you watching?

.......and where's Mike gone? - 'Twas his idea.

[Ian]

We already stock genuine Mazda thermostats AND Blueprint ones. And we can obtain genuine Mazda parts for everything else from Japan no problem.

[Ron Miel]

We already stock genuine Mazda thermostats AND Blueprint ones. And we can obtain genuine Mazda parts for everything else from Japan no problem.

Yes, of course, Ian - and we can also source direct through Mazda dealers. The proposal here is to idenitify as many as possible of those Mazda parts also available at source (their own sub-contract suppliers, that is), at non-Mazda prices - encouraging peeps to use Mazda spec/grade parts in the process.

EDIT: and/or to encourage other Bongo parts suppliers to stock any which are identified/suitable.

[mikexgough]

We already stock genuine Mazda thermostats AND Blueprint ones. And we can obtain genuine Mazda parts for everything else from Japan no problem.

Yes, of course, Ian - and we can also source direct through Mazda dealers. The proposal here is to idenitify as many as possible of those Mazda parts also available at source (their own sub-contract suppliers, that is), at non-Mazda prices - encouraging peeps to use Mazda spec/grade parts in the process.

EDIT: and/or to encourage other Bongo parts suppliers to stock any which are identified/suitable.

oops.... Ian, I was not suggesting that members should not use the Bongo shop to source parts but as an alternative as David says to source the Parts makers "version" that Mazda buy for O.E parts that's all.....to encourage Bongo owners to fit O.E parts and not, possibly lesser quality patterned items...... an example being the engine fan sensor on the diesel WL-T engine........ Mazda sourced and packaged ....yet it was a Denso 179700 0220 and obtainable way cheaper than the Mazda packaged item...

GSF are a supplier of parts for several makes of vehicle and they started off as Andyspares and they sold Citroen/Peugeot O.E parts in the manufacturers boxes rather than Citroen's/Peugeot's.....examples.... Beru spark plugs...Bendix brake parts...Valeo electrics... etc... GSF was formed with a Swedish car part supplier and the same ethos has carried on.....get O.E parts at way less than the Dealer price for the same part.....

[Northern Bongolow]

i must admit to being sceptical about the expansion tank cap allowing air back into the system,so today i tested one, and it does allow air through to relax the system, what i need to do now is find out what the pressure measures when the system is at rest,as i suspect it cannot be zero,anyone any thoughts.
but what this may answer is why the aftermarket rads that have an open pipe at the filler point, leak.

[dandywarhol]

Its a very light spring so I'd be guessing just below zero

[dave_aber]

zero - Barg

[Northern Bongolow]

thanks guys the main reason im asking is because im making this pressure monitoring gadget.
it will measure bottom end and top end pressures of the coolant system.
i was hoping to use the bottom end measurment (if its a positive pressure ) as a form of coolant leak alarm,both pressure switches are variable,so it should be of some good .it should still give an early warning of top end pressure problems,so i will bash on regardless.
just one problem that ive just managed to overcome,i bought galvanized fittings initially,but as ive found out that my red coolant attacks galv ive had to resource but im there now i think

[widdowson2008]

And a pic of a discected matrix - the "twisties" are known as turbulators in the industry

OK - Just got my own pics from Helen of a dissected front heater. BLOODY FASCINATING to say the least.
Requested Helen to do even MORE cuts as the flow path isn't apparent (to me at least.)
Also asked for physical sizes so I can put some numbers around it.

Didn't realise at the time Dandy posted the above pic, but it looks very similar to the ones I have. Is that one from a Bongo Dandy?Just checked - don't think it is from a Bongo - less tubes (unless this is a rear heater?)
......and what do the 'twisties' actually do? cos mine's got 'em too.

I'LL BE BACK.

BTW - keep that up Ady - should make an interesting read

Will this ever end mother?