Bongo Fury

mikexgough wrote:Helen/Steve.... this is good work and confirms to me what I have always suggested over various threads regarding the cooling system and now there is documentary evidence to support my thoughts..... and knowledge gained from Japan. well done to all concerned.

2nd that. As the girl in the old sexist 1960s beer advert says:

"Its too strong for me, but I like the men who drink it."

From the above graphs (produced from real time data), I made up the following simplified animation to show the relationship between the main circuits, with the lumps and bumps of the stat in 'hunting mode' ironed out. This is what I believe Mazda was trying to achieve.

I don't know how you (and anybody else involved ) does it... But i take my hat off to you Mr Widdowson! An absolutely sterling job!

bigdaddycain wrote:I don't know how you (and anybody else involved ) does it... But i take my hat off to you Mr Widdowson! An absolutely sterling job!

Sorry, I can't agree.

Steve and Helen have let slip undeniable FACTS that prove their science a SHAM.
From Steve.
At data point 66, there is a blip in all the graph lines. The vehicle was stationary at this point (Helen shopping ), and everything does what you would expect.
From Helen.
Yes...park up for 10 minutes in 40C.

Now, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to evaluate this, just think logically. How many women do you know that shop for only ten minutes.

Take cover

The Great Pretender wrote:

bigdaddycain wrote:I don't know how you (and anybody else involved ) does it... But i take my hat off to you Mr Widdowson! An absolutely sterling job!

Sorry, I can't agree.

Steve and Helen have let slip undeniable FACTS that prove their science a SHAM.
From Steve.
At data point 66, there is a blip in all the graph lines. The vehicle was stationary at this point (Helen shopping ), and everything does what you would expect.
From Helen.
Yes...park up for 10 minutes in 40C.

Now, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to evaluate this, just think logically. How many women do you know that shop for only ten minutes.

What facts are they Mel? and what sham?

widdowson2008 wrote:

The Great Pretender wrote:

bigdaddycain wrote:I don't know how you (and anybody else involved ) does it... But i take my hat off to you Mr Widdowson! An absolutely sterling job!

Sorry, I can't agree.

Steve and Helen have let slip undeniable FACTS that prove their science a SHAM.
From Steve.
At data point 66, there is a blip in all the graph lines. The vehicle was stationary at this point (Helen shopping ), and everything does what you would expect.
From Helen.
Yes...park up for 10 minutes in 40C.

Now, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to evaluate this, just think logically. How many women do you know that shop for only ten minutes.

What facts are they Mel? and what sham?

Steve, I think there was an attempt at irony about the 'woman in shopping for 10 minutes only' comment!

Keep Calm and Carry On!

I know Derek, but thanks for input. Not polishing my gun just yet.

Just got back from observing a Bongo going through the full monty of:
Pipework inspection prior to coolant change, new thermostat, and subsequent bleeding procedure.
The whole thing would have taken far less time had I not been there because I was asking too many questions as the various events unfolded.
The guy doing the job was very patient and for that I thank him (and his wife for providing a superb running buffet of bacon butties and tea in abundance).
However, I came away with far more information than when I arrived (which was the object of the excercise in the first place) and a better understanding of what happens during bleeding after a coolant change.

Hi mel
Ooops...missed that post ...Nah...not shopping...just 10 minutes posting a notice on the local board for the 200 Bulgarians needed to change a light bulb
Cheers
Helen

helen&tony wrote:Hi
Stat works as expected, and towards late autumn, the bottom hose doesn't register a reading ....stat has no need to operate, as ALL cooling takes place in the upper radiator. Cheers
Helen

This kind of answers what I have found using the Mason moddded gauge..... I had theorised this with some experienced Bongo owners over Beers and had the yeah, yeah and nods of agreement and not seeming to be in absolute agreement....... In the recent cold weather the same readings have shown up again and the usual reading is now back since we are back at the ambient temp of +5c.......
The readings I have had with the 5C and less ambient on the Mason gauge is 12:30 so running slightly warmer than "usual"......with the Coolant not fully circulating, now we are back to "normal" temps.......my gauge is back to 12:00 again ....which endorses Helen's findings without the use of the digital readouts and sensors..........

Hi Mike
So...I don't wish to offend, but when I see this note it looks like you say the work we have put in on this (because Mazda wouldn't provide the information), was in vain, because a messed -about-with Mazda gauge and a couple of beers provided all the information necessary.
Firstly, we aimed to produce definitive calculable results proven by figures and verifyable tests using 6 or 7 hundred quids'worth of gauges, and mixed sensors which had been syncronised to within a degree of each other (and this is very loose correlation in real testing), plus a huge amount of physical gathering of data....NONE of which can be gained on a modified gauge which doesn't even read in any known temperature scale, and is not calibrated against any known standard.
Secondly, the operation of the stat is not related to anything close to 5 degrees C ambient temperature...Naturally this is variable both seasonally and geographically, but is also related to the running conditions and road conditions, load applied, heat generated, and speed...you can REALLY heat up an engine moving through heavy iced snow in ambient conditions around minus 10 , when the stat WILL open...as it's like hauling a ton of bricks!.
When the finished document is produced , by all means criticise...It's what we want...and please back it up with documented procedure!
The Mason gauge may well be a useful gadget to see if the Mazda gauge works...but that's all it is!
I intend to replace some of the gauges yet again, and start over...on another set of tests....and MORE expenditure of hundreds of pounds...and ALL information is provided for the BENEFIT of those who don't want to or haven't got the time to do it themselves.
Cheers
Helen

helen&tony wrote:Hi Mike
So...I don't wish to offend, but when I see this note it looks like you say the work we have put in on this (because Mazda wouldn't provide the information), was in vain, because a messed -about-with Mazda gauge and a couple of beers provided all the information necessary.
Firstly, we aimed to produce definitive calculable results proven by figures and verifyable tests using 6 or 7 hundred quids'worth of gauges, and mixed sensors which had been syncronised to within a degree of each other (and this is very loose correlation in real testing), plus a huge amount of physical gathering of data....NONE of which can be gained on a modified gauge which doesn't even read in any known temperature scale, and is not calibrated against any known standard.
Secondly, the operation of the stat is not related to anything close to 5 degrees C ambient temperature...Naturally this is variable both seasonally and geographically, but is also related to the running conditions and road conditions, load applied, heat generated, and speed...you can REALLY heat up an engine moving through heavy iced snow in ambient conditions around minus 10 , when the stat WILL open...as it's like hauling a ton of bricks!.
When the finished document is produced , by all means criticise...It's what we want...and please back it up with documented procedure!
The Mason gauge may well be a useful gadget to see if the Mazda gauge works...but that's all it is!
I intend to replace some of the gauges yet again, and start over...on another set of tests....and MORE expenditure of hundreds of pounds...and ALL information is provided for the BENEFIT of those who don't want to or haven't got the time to do it themselves.
Cheers
Helen

Thank you for your effort Helen. I take it your house/garage/kitchen/lounge is covered in bits of equipment in various stages of testing and production I have to keep reminding myself, "All for the greater good"

Hi
I must send you some piccies of the inside of my house....as long as you don't recoil in horror at dogs' fluff, dust, cobwebs and debris....and the odd few beer bottles.......However....the workshop is disgustingly clean and organised
Oh...and the garage has rats...but the Bongo doesn't go in there
Cheers
Helen

[quote="helen&tony"]Hi Mike
So...I don't wish to offend, but when I see this note it looks like you say the work we have put in on this (because Mazda wouldn't provide the information), was in vain, because a messed -about-with Mazda gauge and a couple of beers provided all the information necessary.
Firstly, we aimed to produce definitive calculable results proven by figures and verifyable tests using 6 or 7 hundred quids'worth of gauges, and mixed sensors which had been syncronised to within a degree of each other (and this is very loose correlation in real testing), plus a huge amount of physical gathering of data....NONE of which can be gained on a modified gauge which doesn't even read in any known temperature scale, and is not calibrated against any known standard.
Secondly, the operation of the stat is not related to anything close to 5 degrees C ambient temperature...Naturally this is variable both seasonally and geographically, but is also related to the running conditions and road conditions, load applied, heat generated, and speed...you can REALLY heat up an engine moving through heavy iced snow in ambient conditions around minus 10 , when the stat WILL open...as it's like hauling a ton of bricks!.
When the finished document is produced , by all means criticise...It's what we want...and please back it up with documented procedure!
The Mason gauge may well be a useful gadget to see if the Mazda gauge works...but that's all it is!
I intend to replace some of the gauges yet again, and start over...on another set of tests....and MORE expenditure of hundreds of pounds...and ALL information is provided for the BENEFIT of those who don't want to or haven't got the time to do it themselves.
Cheers
Hi you might qualify for a Lottery Fund Grant..

Hi
Rita
I wish ...no...it's a thing that started out as just sticking a few extra gauges on , but it became an involvement in trying to answer what lots of folk asked....and the only way Steve and myself know how to do that qualitatively is by quoting numbers...and it got more expensive than planned, as these things do
Cheers
Helen