Bongo Fury

You may be my last chance of getting a solution to the problem I am having with my automatic Ford Freda 1995 diesel 2.5. It is very reluctant to change up from first gear from cold and does not operate correctly until the engine has been running for 5 minutes or so. There is no slippage and the box works perfectly once warm. The engine is running at full power.

I went to my local gearbox specialists and they insist that the transmission is not at fault. The fluid levels are right and there is no sign of wear. Do you have any ideas what it could be and if so how expensive it would be to get repaired?

slightly different but may be related, there is a sensor which will stop you going into TOP gear until the engine temperature is up to a certain level, could it be this sensor playing up , not sure where it is but i hope someone will come along and let us know

Bobngo thanks for that. The gearbox engineer said it sounded like one of the sensors going adrift. Strange that the box is so perfect once it has been running for 5 minutes or so. I am after someone who has had the same fault so I know what kind of cost I am up against.

Welcome to the madhouse
Have a read of this thread http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=29471 - it's possible you may be able to get a local member to check it for you
5 minutes before working correctly is about right, depending on how cold it is. It should change out of first though

Merci bien c'est très gentil!

I am hoping someone has had a similar fault and knows the remedy.

Thanks

Fordfreda wrote:Merci bien c'est très gentil!

I am hoping someone has had a similar fault and knows the remedy.

Thanks

Pas problem mon ami - I'm sure somebody will be along shortly There are a couple of auto box specialists on here
How long is it before it will change from first and does it work if you ease your foot from the accelerator?

From your description I am inclined to agree with the diagnosis from your transmission specialist. The most likely cause is low power at that point in time. To quote from one of my earlier posts:-

"The two basic inputs required by any auto trans are throttle position & road speed & from this the ECU (in the case of an electronically controlled transmission like the Bongo) can determine when & how to shift. If the engine is, like yours, down on power it will change gear late & downshift/kickdown all the time as you are having to give the engine more throttle to make the vehicle move at the same speed as you would normally. So for example you may drive on a light throttle up to 40mph with, lets say, 25% throttle opening normally (good engine power), to get the same speed with an engine down on power you will probably be at 50% + so the gearbox will late shift. Of course as soon as you feather the throttle, it upshifts as you have reduced the throttle opening. If you use even more throttle then it will downshift or kickdown, expecting the engine to then pull up to high revs, in this situation because the engine is not making its power that doesn't happen so you end up with loads of revs & no go.

This is a very common scenario & one we see quite a lot when car are either miss-diagnosed by garages or the power loss has been gradual (as in mass air flow meter issues) & the owner just doesn't become aware until the odd shifting makes him aware."

The above is for a vehicle that suffers all the time but the theory hold true nevertheless. I myself am in the auto trans business & it certainly doesnt sound like a gearbox issue, but without experiencing it myself I can't say for sure. Some transmissions suffer with solenoid troubles when cold which prevents upshifts, but I have never heard of it with these transmissions but that isn't to say it's not possible.

Hello Alacrity

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. There are a couple of things that I should point out and they are: the engine is operating at full power; and that the problem ceases completely after five minutes. I think this would eliminate the possibility of the throttle position sensor (TPS) being the culprit - but I am no expert. Actually you are not saying it is the sensor but an underpowered engine putting the throttle position in the wrong place. What if the sensor were faulty?

It is quite frustrating because it only happens from a cold start; once at operating temperature the box works perfectly. When I pull away in the morning it won't change up from first unless I take my foot off the throttle to enforce a change.

I have just had a thought: I have never tried to drive it like a manual from cold. Perhaps I should try to run up through the gears to see if the problem can be bypassed?

Keep the ideas coming!

Many thanks

Fordfreda wrote:Hello Alacrity

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. There are a couple of things that I should point out and they are: the engine is operating at full power; and that the problem ceases completely after five minutes. I think this would eliminate the possibility of the throttle position sensor (TPS) being the culprit - but I am no expert. Actually you are not saying it is the sensor but an underpowered engine putting the throttle position in the wrong place. What if the sensor were faulty?

It is quite frustrating because it only happens from a cold start; once at operating temperature the box works perfectly. When I pull away in the morning it won't change up from first unless I take my foot off the throttle to enforce a change.

I have just had a thought: I have never tried to drive it like a manual from cold. Perhaps I should try to run up through the gears to see if the problem can be bypassed?

Keep the ideas coming!

Many thanks

A lot of your description sounds like the operation of a normal healthy Bongo autobox. As designed, they never behave normally until up to temperature. So on a very cold morning, you feel like you are driving in 2nd gear for the first few minutes. Then the box will start moving to 3rd gear (but not to top / lock out, which happens a little while later). So, just to be absolutely clear, are you familiar with this normal behaviour and has something definite happened that is making the box now behave differently. Sorry to be pedantic, but its always hard when you are diagnosing by email and there's been more than one occasion where we've all barked up the wrong tree when trying to advise someone.

It's interesting that you say it will change from 1st when cold if you take your foot off the throttle a bit. Taking it all together, it sounds like any problem you have may not (with luck ) be serious.

Have you checked the level of the automatic transmisison fluid?

Hello mikeonb4c

Thanks for your reply. My Freda used to work normally (normal for Bongos!) from cold, with a late change into top, but more recently it has been getting stuck in first. No matter how fast I go in first it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle.

I have checked the fluid level and it is spot on. There is no smell/sign of burning or wear and tear either.

I hope you are right that the problem will be inexpensive. In fact if the problem doesn't get any worse then I am going to ignore it by driving through the box manually in the mornings until operating temperature is reached.

I have just been out for a long drive and the box has been excellent but not from cold.

Thanks again

I take it you've checked the level with it all warmed up & with the engine running having ranged slowly through all the gears?

Do you know if the gearbox oil has ever been changed? May not have a bearing on it but it's as well to do it anyway & clean the filter while you're at it - http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=30096

Hello Kirsty

Yes fortunately I have a manual that gave a step by step routine to follow when checking the fluid level on an autobox. It seems long-winded but I followed it to the letter.

Thanks

Fordfreda wrote:Hello mikeonb4c

Thanks for your reply. My Freda used to work normally (normal for Bongos!) from cold, with a late change into top, but more recently it has been getting stuck in first. No matter how fast I go in first it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle.

I have checked the fluid level and it is spot on. There is no smell/sign of burning or wear and tear either.

I hope you are right that the problem will be inexpensive. In fact if the problem doesn't get any worse then I am going to ignore it by driving through the box manually in the mornings until operating temperature is reached.

I have just been out for a long drive and the box has been excellent but not from cold.

Thanks again

Ahhhh, OK then. Thought it best to eliminate these from enquiries. Alacrity is the guy to comment but it still sounds to me like the box itself might be fine, but the solenoid pack, throttle position sensor, speedo connection or somesuch might be the cause. Need to get it to a specialist. Discount Trucks are at Newbury but I'm not sure they are really autobox specialists - maybe call them if not too far off for you. I think there is an autbox specialist on the clubs reocmmended list somewhere along the south coast (Weymouth maybe? Southamption? maybe someone on here can advise).

Good luck, and travel in hope. Best to bit the bullet and get it looked at though I reckon.

Dunnings Automatics in Weymouth http://www.dunnings-automatics.co.uk/ good guys, know their way around bongos by all accounts, BUT if it isn't an autobox problem.....

If it were in my shop I would wire what is called a signal monitor onto the solenoid wiring so you can watch the switching of the sols & therefore the shifts. If the sols are being switched & the box doesn't change then you have an internal fault, solenoids or sticking valves. If the sols are not being commanded to shift then the problem lies outside the box. Personally I suspect the latter, but I am not sure there is a transmission issues at all, I think the percieved transmission issue is a symptom of another engine related problem. On a more modern system you can see all this with a decent scanner, on the Bongo you have to start splicing into the wiring & watching the LED's!

In your own words you say "it will still not shift into second until I ease off the throttle". To me that indicates that you are having to use too much throttle to get the vehicle to perform, the fact that it changes when you back off indicates that everthing is working as it should, but a simple monitoring of the TPS signal with a meter will confirm if the TPS is working as it should. I have never known a TPS mis-behave only when cold but I have known hundreds of engines do so.