Bongo Fury

Just been reading Velocette's thread re head gasket failure, which has made me think I should probably be a bit more clued up should the worst happen. So if my coolant alarm goes off, I won't let the AA man even start it, and will insist on recovery to my bfg (ADS), but can a 4WD Diesel be towed (on 4 or 2 wheels?), or can it only be recovered on a flat-bed?

As long as the system has cooled down and been topped up with fluid the AA man will be ok to start it and perform a whiffer test on it by the road side after all if the head gaskets gone then he really can't do much more damage can he, a 4x4 with an auto box can be flat towed a short distance ( no more than 2 miles to get you off the motorway ) whilst in neutral as long as you don't exceed 15 mph, for recovery home you'll want a total lift flatbed but be aware that if its at a time when garages are open and you elect for it to go to your home address the AA won't move it again for the same fault, but if the garages are closed then recovery home then onto a garage of your choice is possible.

If your coolant alarm goes off....Don't panic.....pull over as soon as it is safe to do so.......open the bonnet and have a look at the header tank..........do not remove the cap untill it has cooled down a bit and then remove it slowly allowing any pressure to release......
If there is coolant in the tank (at least a inch) it is safe to top it up to the full line......
but first try and see where the leak is and you may be able to fix it .......you can then proceed and the alarm will warn if the level drops again...

HOWEVER...if the tank is empty....then do not refill and do not start the engine or drive....get recovered.

Good to know, so thanks. I'm printing this off, sticking it in the glove box and praying i never need to read it!

M 80NGO wrote:As long as the system has cooled down and been topped up with fluid the AA man will be ok to start it and perform a whiffer test on it by the road side after all if the head gaskets gone then he really can't do much more damage can he, a 4x4 with an auto box can be flat towed a short distance ( no more than 2 miles to get you off the motorway ) whilst in neutral as long as you don't exceed 15 mph, for recovery home you'll want a total lift flatbed but be aware that if its at a time when garages are open and you elect for it to go to your home address the AA won't move it again for the same fault, but if the garages are closed then recovery home then onto a garage of your choice is possible.

Great advice M80!

bigdaddycain wrote:

M 80NGO wrote:As long as the system has cooled down and been topped up with fluid the AA man will be ok to start it and perform a whiffer test on it by the road side after all if the head gaskets gone then he really can't do much more damage can he, a 4x4 with an auto box can be flat towed a short distance ( no more than 2 miles to get you off the motorway ) whilst in neutral as long as you don't exceed 15 mph, for recovery home you'll want a total lift flatbed but be aware that if its at a time when garages are open and you elect for it to go to your home address the AA won't move it again for the same fault, but if the garages are closed then recovery home then onto a garage of your choice is possible.

Great advice M80!

Yes But !!!! if the coolant has dropped through a burst hose (or whatever) and you pulled over as soon as the alarm sounded.....no damage will be done at this point....But...if mr RAC then tops up a empty tank there will be air trapped in there and starting/driving can cause loads of harm.....So I say....never TOP up a empty tank without bleeding it properly afterwards...
If the tank was not empty ...then fine.

Plus I'm pretty sure a whiffer test is a bit inconclusive in the case of our diesel bongos from results that have been posted over the years.

M 80NGO wrote:As long as the system has cooled down and been topped up with fluid the AA man will be ok to start it and perform a whiffer test on it by the road side after all if the head gaskets gone then he really can't do much more damage can he, a 4x4 with an auto box can be flat towed a short distance ( no more than 2 miles to get you off the motorway ) whilst in neutral as long as you don't exceed 15 mph, for recovery home you'll want a total lift flatbed but be aware that if its at a time when garages are open and you elect for it to go to your home address the AA won't move it again for the same fault, but if the garages are closed then recovery home then onto a garage of your choice is possible.

That is useful to know but being towed home is not an option with a T4 owner 2 doors away!

I chose to leave it outside ADS.. The water on mine never went below the highest part of the tank bottom but you may have combustion gas bubbles frothing around I guess which is just as dangerous as air My 2WD could be towed at up to 30mph in neutral but the RAC guy said he would have called for a recovery vehicle if it had been a 4WD. We were in a relatively safe place.

missfixit70 wrote:Plus I'm pretty sure a whiffer test is a bit inconclusive in the case of our diesel bongos from results that have been posted over the years.

Have to agree, i've seen them done lots of times and they've always been pretty vague, seen cars recovered to 321, with notes from AA/RAC saying failed sniffer test, when all required was bleeding the system as they didnt know how!

Julian

Velocette wrote: I My 2WD could be towed at up to 30mph in neutral but the RAC guy said he would have called for a recovery vehicle if it had been a 4WD. We were in a relatively safe place.

Did they tow it with the rear wheels lifted? if not, won't have done the 'box any favours, needs the oil pump working to tow any auto box I thought.

missfixit70 wrote:

Velocette wrote: I My 2WD could be towed at up to 30mph in neutral but the RAC guy said he would have called for a recovery vehicle if it had been a 4WD. We were in a relatively safe place.

Did they tow it with the rear wheels lifted? if not, won't have done the 'box any favours, needs the oil pump working to tow any auto box I thought.

no, just a rigid bar tow. I always thought autos couldn't be towed too. It was baout 4 or 5 miles.

I believe either Alacrity or Dandy said they could be towed for a short distance IF extra fluid was put in the gearbox. Otherwise, as Kirsty said, it's a no-no to tow an auto any distance.

2 of 4 wheel drive makes no difference as far as I can see, it's the auto gearbox that is the issue here. Towing an auto without the engine running (& the driving wheels on the road) is to be avoided unless you have absolutely no other option, even then the speed should be kept below 25 mph max & only for very short distances. Towing an auto without the engine running is the same as running the engine with no oil in it. Providing the gearbox is working OK & the engine is running then you can tow it as far as you like.

Just because you AA/RAC man says it's OK doesn't mean he is correct. I have had them bring cars to me with the driving wheels on the ground & the trans in melt down! One AA man argued that you can tow a Mondeo with the front wheels on the ground & proudly showed me his AA supplied PC which agreed with him. He still wouldn't have it when I showed him the owners manual in the car which backed me up. Needless to say most of the transmission internals went straight in the scrap bin.

One option of course is to remove the prop shaft(s) then you can do what you like.

I am not convinced adding extra oil will help either, it's a pumped system so it doesn't have the pump running it will be running without lubrication.

Alacrity wrote:2 of 4 wheel drive makes no difference as far as I can see, it's the auto gearbox that is the issue here. Towing an auto without the engine running (& the driving wheels on the road) is to be avoided unless you have absolutely no other option, even then the speed should be kept below 25 mph max & only for very short distances. Towing an auto without the engine running is the same as running the engine with no oil in it. Providing the gearbox is working OK & the engine is running then you can tow it as far as you like.

Just because you AA/RAC man says it's OK doesn't mean he is correct. I have had them bring cars to me with the driving wheels on the ground & the trans in melt down! One AA man argued that you can tow a Mondeo with the front wheels on the ground & proudly showed me his AA supplied PC which agreed with him. He still wouldn't have it when I showed him the owners manual in the car which backed me up. Needless to say most of the transmission internals went straight in the scrap bin.

One option of course is to remove the prop shaft(s) then you can do what you like.

I am not convinced adding extra oil will help either, it's a pumped system so it doesn't have the pump running it will be running without lubrication.

Thanks, not what I wanted to hear, but I knew you would have the definitive answer. I guess I've got to hope that the residual lube was enough. Claiming for damage from the RAC is not likely to be easy,

Yes But !!!! if the coolant has dropped through a burst hose (or whatever) and you pulled over as soon as the alarm sounded.....no damage will be done at this point....But...if mr RAC then tops up a empty tank there will be air trapped in there and starting/driving can cause loads of harm.....So I say....never TOP up a empty tank without bleeding it properly afterwards...
If the tank was not empty ...then fine.

If the Rac / AA man tops up you header tank and he doesn't notice its pouring straight out of the burst hose ( or what ever )then he really shouldn't be aloud within 500 metres of a tool box or any broken down vehicle , without topping up how can he diagnose ? what would be the point of having breakdown cover if your not going to allow them to investigate and diagnose by the roadside, would you not be properly hacked off if you just got a straight recovery 200 mile home wrecking your holiday plans only to find that your v6 petrol missfire was caused by a loose electrode cap that could have easily been sorted by the roadside ? i went to a peugeot 406 one friday evening that the exhaust had corroded through and broke in half, the family were on there way from hull to exeter for a wedding so rather than put them on a slow recovery truck i mended there exhaust with a baked bean tin and 3 jubilee clips and sent them on there way with a tempory repair

I say have faith in the recovery guys they are trained and regularly updated and know all the little tricks to get you going where they can and its safe to do so with a tempory repair they do the job day in and day out, as for the guy with the T4 2 doors up i can honestly say that when i was roadsiding we had to recover way more vw's than we did Mazdas