Roof Yet Again

[mrsam]

Hi g8dhe Geoff,
thanks for that information.What if I may ask is the Lush project and were can I buy a copy,it seams most useful.
mrsam

[g8dhe]

Its just a database on the web of the parts and diagrams, just use it its free The main link is here. Brilliant for identifying the parts, not so good on fine detail, but that's the normal manual standard of course

[mrsam]

Thanks again.Could be most helpful.
mrsam

[mrsam]

Well back to it now the rain has stopped.Got the roof up by pressing down on the roof before operating the motors.The locking bit is fixed to the roof so its trying to pull the roof down against the struts and the rubber seal so my original efferts to lift the roof manually(with air bed) only made it more difficult for the locks to disengage.I used a couple of the ratchet straps to pull down on the roof and operated the switch for a few seconds released the strap and tried the switch again ,After 2 attempts the roof started to lift but wouldn't go any distance.
Was able to lift it manually, about 8-9inches, backlash in the system.The lift was enough to disconect the carrier 5 hex screws on both sides.Then it was easy to lift the roof chocking it with wood as I went along.
Removed the motors and fond that one was dead.so one on order.I had noticed before that one of them had a diferent resistance.
Hope this is the root of the problem.
One thing I found was that Fuse 10 --15amps is involved this feeds the control box and you loose power if it is removed
mrsam

[Hippotastic]

mrsam,

I am sorry for your troubles, but I would like to thank you for the information and write up you are posting here. Very clear at what you are doing to try to fix the problem, and my understanding of how the roof actually works has increased thanks to your efforts in writing all this up.

Good work fella, and best of luck with the new motor when it arrives.

[mikeonb4c]

mrsam,

I am sorry for your troubles, but I would like to thank you for the information and write up you are posting here. Very clear at what you are doing to try to fix the problem, and my understanding of how the roof actually works has increased thanks to your efforts in writing all this up.

Good work fella, and best of luck with the new motor when it arrives.

ditto

[Rhod]

It's ocurred to me more than once, than the electric AFT is a possible achilles heel as Bongos get older - as well as a major selling point! Any thoughts on how feasible it would be to convert it to a manual lift, in the worst case? Obviously some kind of additional struts would be required to hold it up, but I've no idea how heavy the roof is compared to manual pop-tops.

[mrsam]

Hi Rhod
The roof is quite heavy and to convert it to a mechanical system you would require some way of disengaging the locks on both sides.You can see the lock area when the roof is down if you have opened the tent and fly screen,so it may be posible to have some system here.
The lifting mechanism is 2 flexable push rods that look like a streched metal curtain rail,the spiral type.A gear wheel on the motor engages these and pushes these rods.Fixed to of the rods is a carrier which lifts the roof.Each motor pushes the rods for both sides and if only one motor was fited and if the remaining motor had pleanty of power it could lift the roof on its own.With the 2 motors they work in partnership to lift the roof
Each motor has a nut which rotates with the gear wheel but on the other side of the casing.This nut faces down ond if there were 2 holes in the ceiling which gave access to thes nuts then you could turn the gear wheel mechanically if you could disengage the gear wheel from the electrical motor.I did read that there was some slipping cluch but I can't confirm that but if there was just maybe here is a basis of a mechanical system.
mrsam

[mrsam]

At long last the roof motors arrived this mornong and are now fitted.All systems seam to be OK.
Thanks everyone for all your help and guidance.
I'd like to sumarise a few of the things I found out while fixing the roof.
1 There are 2 fuses involved No 10 and No12
2 The Roof Control Box is on the drivers side,just in front of the lights.
3 The 4 pin cable coming into the control box carries the 12 volts from fuse 12 on the black and green wires.The red and blue wires carry the 12volts from the control box to the roof motors.Links used here can put 12volts direct to the motors bypassing all the micro switches etc.
4 There are 3 microswitches and a plunger switch on the roof rail passengers side.The plunger switch is symilar to the handbrake switch and cuts off the roof light if you've left it on when dropping the roof.The plunger switch is at the front of the rail.
A microswitch is fitted at the rear of the passenger roof rail and cuts off the power and alarms when the roof is fully raised.
A microswitch is fitted half way along the passenger rail this operates when lowering the roof.Requires you to release the lowering button and is probably to make you check all is clear in the roof area.
A microswitch is fitted to the front of the passenger rail this togerther with the microswitch at the front of the drivers side rail switches off the power and alarms when the roof locks down.NoteThese microswitches only cut off the power if you are coming down from a fully UP position.If you come from Down to Half Up and then select Down the microswitches will cut of the alarm but not cut out the Down Switch.
5 When the roof is locked down you can help the motors unlock by pressing Down on the roof.As soon as it has unlocked then you can help the motors by lifting the roof .If you try to lift the roof while it is locked down you are working against the motors.
6 If the motors will not lift the roof you can disconect the carrier by removeing the 5(each side) hex bolts on the carrier.This will alow you access to the motors.
7 It's probably not a good idea to store anything in the roof area.When the roof comes down the motor pulls the roof down with the locking wheals on the carriers.It has to overcome the seals on the roof.If the roof has to compress anything stored in this area it can only make the motors job harder.Put things in this area only after the roof has locked down,and remove them before you try to lift the roof.

Thanks again everyone for your help
mrsam

[BongoMTBer]

Well done MrSam!

You will never be able to sell it after that saga.

[mrsam]

Took the motor to pieces today.The electric motor had had some water in it,evidence of rust.It has Carbon Brushes,probably the cause of the failure.The electric motor drives a plastic gear wheel via a worm drive.The plastic gear drives the output gear via a friction drive.The nut on the other side to the output drive adjusts the amount of friction between the plastic gear and the output gear.I supose this system saves the motors if the roof has some mechanical fault.
mrsam

[mikeonb4c]

Wow - you sound like you know yourself, sorting out an AFT like that.

Where did your source your motors and is it rude to ask what cost was?

You've got me nervous now about storing stuff in the roof as I'd been banking on the gearing of things giving plenty of reserve for the last, locking phase of the operation (it kind of feels like that as the locks go home)

[mrsam]

Hi.I got the Roof Motor from ebay.The email address is joycelucygeorge@aol.com,and the cost was £20 plus £5 postage.They had 10 originally.
mrsam

[mikeonb4c]

Hi.I got the Roof Motor from ebay.The email address is joycelucygeorge@aol.com,and the cost was £20 plus £5 postage.They had 10 originally.
mrsam

Thanks mrsam - thats useful. So there's only 1 motor then I take it (your original post said 'motors' so I wondered if there was two)? Not too bad a hit on cost then if the jobs now a good un. Well done again.

[mrsam]

No there are 2 motors but only 1 was faulty.
mrsam