Difficult starting and Black smoke

[Simon Jones]

Valve clearances-I gapped the valves to the measurements on the forum. It's written down at home but I'm in work at the moment. 0.4 and 0.8mm I think. Once I'd ran her I then rechecked and had to re-adjust three of the valves.

A quick search suggests that the clearances should be a bit less than currently set:

Inlet 0.1mm +/- 0.005mm
Exhaust 0.2mm +/- 0.05mm

[Moldy Iest]

Got hold of my diesel mechanic yesterday and he's coming round on Tuesday to do a compression test and time the diesel pump. I won't do anything with it until then, in case the compressions down and I need to take the head off again
I set the valves to four and eight thou, only had my imperial feeler gauge at the time.
Here's a photo of the pump pulley. Looks like it's not quite right, any thoughts?

Thanks again.

[gmaczbongo]

I forgot to grind the valves
Did you fit a new head with valves etc included or did you fit a new head and then fit the old valves withour grinding them in.
If you did fit old valves(or new valves) and did not grind them in, it will not work properly.
It will be even worse with a diesel as pressures are higher.
You will have to remove the head and start again.
If you fitted a new head and the valves were included and were already fitted and properly grinded then you will be ok.

[Moldy Iest]

The new head was supplied complete with valves and everything. It was good to go apart from valve clearances, but I've never trusted any valves in the past without grinding them. Kicking myself now but fingers crossed that the pump timing will sort it. Compression test should settle it, having that done on Tuesday.
Thanks for the post.

[hembramacho]

No real advice on offer as my knowledge on engines is minimal (sorry, about to hijack the thread). Saying that mine has been in to Dave at Direct Diesels before now - top bloke!

All I was going to say was, yours is obviously the other white over silver AFT bongo I've seen around Mold with the same decals as mine.........unless there are 3 of us!
Good to put a forum name to the Bongo!!

Cheers

Andrew

[Moldy Iest]

Hi Andrew. Thanks for the opinion on Dave Croft, I've heard a lot of good things about him so was quite confident in his abilities. There's a local lad called Gareth Smith having a look at the timing today for me. I'm pretty sure that he'll get it sorted.
Is yours the one I've seen parked in the Glan'r'afon school car park? If not then that's the third !!
See you about town
Iestyn

[hembramacho]

Hi Andrew. Thanks for the opinion on Dave Croft, I've heard a lot of good things about him so was quite confident in his abilities. There's a local lad called Gareth Smith having a look at the timing today for me. I'm pretty sure that he'll get it sorted.
Is yours the one I've seen parked in the Glan'r'afon school car park? If not then that's the third !!
See you about town
Iestyn

Hi Iestyn
Yes, that'd be mine at Glanrafon, so looks like 2 it is!
Hope you got the timing sorted today.

Cheers

Andrew

[Moldy Iest]

Todays update-
Diesel mechanic did the following-Checked compression and was good. Diesel pump timing adjusted.

When I got back from work I checked the cam/crank timing and it's spot on. I blanked off the EGR valve but left it electrically and pneumatically connected.

Still taking about thirty seconds to start and smoking quite a bit but grey smoke now rather than black. She now has even less power and seems to take an age to rev up, even in neutral.

I think the next step is to take her to someone who knows their way around a Bongo. Any suggestions or recommendations of anyone in the Mold/Chester area?

Andrew-What did Dave Croft do for you? Do you think he'd be able to diagnose a bit of an "interesting" issue like mine??

Thanks again

[Northern Bongolow]

may be barking up the wrong tree but is it a winter pack motor,if so is it working,is it switched on when it should be off.

[Moldy Iest]

Yes itis and I've already checked the operation of the exhaust valve. Have a look at the original post, I've tried to mentioned everything that I've looked at.
Thanks for your post.

[dave_aber]

If I'm reading your updates correctly - you had black smoke, and now have grey smoke. All that has fundamentally changed is the pump timing and the EGR has been blanked off?

Black smoke is unburnt fuel, which could be an injection timing issue. Grey is usually an injection timing issue, or incorrect fuel.

Sounds to me like you have narrowed it down to a timing issue, but are not quite there yet. Has the situation with the pump pulley changed since the photo you posted on Sunday, with the timing mark at the end of the range?

[hembramacho]

Andrew-What did Dave Croft do for you? Do you think he'd be able to diagnose a bit of an "interesting" issue like mine??

Hi Iestyn
Mine went in as it was lumpy starting with a bit of black smoke. This was only happening when starting from cold. First he adjusted the timing, which didn't really cure it, but made the bongo sound like a tractor! I suggested fuel seals, which he said was one hell of a fiddly job and pricey on labour, so he put a non-return valve in, which he said he has done on other vehicles with success, and also a primer on the fuel filter (I think!). It seemed to do the trick, but then the colder weather came and it was still a bit juddery to start with still a bit of smoke. Now the weather is becoming warmer it starts a hell of a lot better in the morning - I can only assume my bongo doesn't like the cold!
I get mine serviced at AB garage in Manor Lane, Hawarden if it's any help. Really happy with their service - been going there for years. Not really a bongo specialist, but know their way round mine, and are jap import specialists.

Good luck

Andrew

[Moldy Iest]

Sounds to me like you have narrowed it down to a timing issue, but are not quite there yet. Has the situation with the pump pulley changed since the photo you posted on Sunday, with the timing mark at the end of the range?

No change on the pulley but the guy that adjused the pump timing yesterday seems to have gone from one extreme (black smoke) to the other extreme (grey smoke). I think that this suggests that the coarse timing adjustment is not affecting things, or am I taking a too simplistic view on things

Drove her to work this morning and the power has improved significantly when warmed up, so I'm quite pleased that some progress has been made. I can't help thinking that the injector lift pressures are still a little high (115Bar) but the diesel mechanic that did it for me is adamant that they should not go any lower as this could allow combustion gasses to pass back through them. Missfixyit stated that they should be at 107Bar for a used pump, which makes sense seeing that the engine and pump have done over 170K.

It seemed to do the trick, but then the colder weather came and it was still a bit juddery to start with still a bit of smoke.

When I get my problem sorted(eventually) I'll come and have a look at yours. I'll be an expert by then

[hembramacho]

When I get my problem sorted(eventually) I'll come and have a look at yours. I'll be an expert by then

Cheers Iestyn - would really appreciate that. It seems like you're getting somewhere at least. Bongo's eh - don't ya just love em!

Andrew

[Moldy Iest]

FIXED

Sorry for not updating my issue for a while, but not much had happened apart from head scratching.
Booked in to Ian Taylor on Tuesday and picked her up yesterday morning. He said that the fuel pump timing was miles out and adjusted it to where it should be. Now starts immediately and the only way to tell she's started is that the rev counter moves, the engine is that quiet. Ian thought I'd left some nuts in the engine when he started her up initially
When driving, she goes like that stuff off the shovel. I really can't believe the transformation.

No smoke at all now apart from a small puff of black on accelaration which I'm quite happy with considering the mileage on the clock. I've noticed that the planes haven't been grounded since the fuel pump's been sorted. I hope that's just a coincedence

Thanks to all again for all your advice, this really is an excellent forum.