Heater Matrixes

[helen&tony]

Hi
A week or two ago, we replaced the last of the hoses for silicon...the last 5 that had been sitting in a box for a year or two....and there's a tale of caution....First, Tony got to attack the rear heater,,,,and broke a bit off one of the stubs going into the heater matrix....PLASTIC, of all things!!!...so , naturally, I called him every name under the sun....when I calmed down, I re-fitted them myself...crikey...talk about brittle!!!....So, we completely drained the system again (did it last year ...TWICE...once when we fitted a new Rad. and the other time just to fit some hoses, and check the coolant)....
So, we bled it the other week....and went for a wee spin...next morning, a cold bleed....everything functioning well Got home today, and the Low coolant alarm was twittering....ODD????...checked, and the level had just dropped as we got home ...a quick check...water dripping...Oh, goodness gracious me, I exclaimed peaceably ....being ex-WRNs and very polite
Quick...out with all the heater components...10 minute job....mmmm....where's the leak....eventually traced to one of the front heater matrix stubs....."Oh, dear", said I , as it fell apart...plastic again....now to try getting the old piece of pipe out of the hose...spent half an hour trying to find my special "firkling" tool...no deal, so I thought I'd try squeezing the old pipe out of the hose....now, bearing in mind I can't open a bottle of ketchup ...but to my surprise , it just fell out of the hose in pieces....Now, the stub is metal, with a plastic pipe bonded over the top, and there is 1/2 inch of pipe still on the metal, so I tightened the hose to it, and PRAY it holds
So...there's a tale for you if you intend to replace the hoses....have a spare piece of plastic of the right external diameter to bond over the metal stub if yours cracks....some plumbing pipe looks like a fit!
But WHY???? does Mazda...a reputable car manufacturer use ridiculous plastic components in the cooling system....I replaced the radiator with all-metal!...proper stuff!
Cheers
Helen

[mister munkey]

Blinkin' heck!!

Credit where due to you guys, I'd be nervous tackling something like that outside Wheelquick with a bus full of genuine spare parts!

Can't even imagine how colourful the language must be when excretrement hits the extractor in such a far off land.

I trust your Gung-Ho brown paper & string approach is gonna hold fast for ya.

[321Away]

ah, so i'm not the only 1 to have done this!! agree that when the piupe bonds on its a nightmare to get off, i always grasp gently with pliers and twist it few times to break ant seals, problem is when its brittle it just crumbles in the hose! and the front matrix isnt very nice for getting out, that said neither is the rear!!
Julian

[helen&tony]

Hi
Thanks folks...Having taken a look at where it is...I agree it isn't a nice job...but it looks easier than the last tome I took an Audi apart....It took 3 hours...only to find nothing wrong...and the main dealer said it would take 3 hours in a workshop!!!!....and at the money they charge
So, Julian...Do you think the pipe would hold on the 1/2 inch left...I see the inner metal is intact, and I tightened the hose at the very end ...I think I'll replace the matrix in September, if it holds, and fit a Kenlowe to cope with the extreme cold....well...not too extreme (only minus 25C, but I don't like it)
Cheers
Helen

[321Away]

i have done that before as the reinforced pipe is stronger and had no problems
Julian

[missfixit70]

I did the same on my front heater matrix, about half an inch of the stub broke off, but there was plenty left to grip onto, & that's one of the few joints that actually hasn't leaked with the silicon hoses since this winter

[helen&tony]

Hi
Thanks...quite a bit broke...AFTER the hose was put back on and run for a week...all that is left is the metal stub, and half an inch of the plastic at the inboard end...If it holds , I'll replace the matrix, and re-inforce the plastic on the next one
Cheers
Helen

[Ron Miel]

Whoops!

Have just done a copper pipe bypass across the ends of the rear heater matrix coolant feed hoses (this thread, from here on: http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... 93#p412292), without reading this topic beforehand.

The hose seals were initially hard to break but, once released (by hand, not pliers, rotation of the joint sections), the hoses then easily slid off the matrix stubs - leaving just aluminium pipe spigots exposed, with no bonded plastic collars visible, either intact or broken.

Having now read this, am I right in assuming that there must be, possibly broken, plastic pipe sections still inside the hoses - and that I'll have to diconnect the bypass to remove them before running the engine (which fortunately, I've not yet done)?

Presumably, the plastics are used either because a direct rubber to aluminium seal is unreliable, or because over-tightened jubilee clips can crush aluminium pipe?

[Ron Miel]

Whoops!

Have just done a copper pipe bypass across the ends of the rear heater matrix coolant feed hoses (this thread, from here on: http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... 93#p412292), without reading this topic beforehand.

The hose seals were initially hard to break but, once released (by hand, not pliers, rotation of the joint sections), the hoses then easily slid off the matrix stubs - leaving just aluminium pipe spigots exposed, with no bonded plastic collars visible, either intact or broken.

Having now read this, am I right in assuming that there must be, possibly broken, plastic pipe sections still inside the hoses - and that I'll have to diconnect the bypass to remove them before running the engine (which fortunately, I've not yet done)?

Presumably, the plastics are used either because a direct rubber to aluminium seal is unreliable, or because over-tightened jubilee clips can crush aluminium pipe?

Possible answer here http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... 28#p412928 - can anybody else confirm re (post 9/99) "new shapes"?

[helen&tony]

Hi Ron
The rear one went O.K. with only a bit of plastic pipe broken. The front one has most of it gone, and that was AFTER I replaced the hose on what looked like an undamaged pipe. I literally got onto our drive, and it disintegrated. Took all the components out of the bonnet, felt the hose, and it just dropped off...complete with 75% of the plastic stub!....It's currently refitted onto the 1/2 inch of plastic sheathing on what looks like a coppery stub. I've ordered some pipe, and some reducer-hoses to go from the old hose (well, new silicon ones), to the stub, once I've broken the remaining plastic off the stub. I also have a new heater matrix on the way...to be replaced in another couple of months when I fit the Kenlowe heater....That'll make 6 coolant replacements/ bleeds within 12 months....OOOhhhh....FUN.....
Why I don't do all these jobs at once!!! ...truth to tell, my old hands only cope with so much work in a day before they sieze up in pain so all jobs get done in instalments......poor old biddy , eh?
Cheers
Helen

[Ron Miel]

Hi Ron
The rear one went O.K. with only a bit of plastic pipe broken. The front one has most of it gone, and that was AFTER I replaced the hose on what looked like an undamaged pipe. I literally got onto our drive, and it disintegrated. Took all the components out of the bonnet, felt the hose, and it just dropped off...complete with 75% of the plastic stub!....It's currently refitted onto the 1/2 inch of plastic sheathing on what looks like a coppery stub. I've ordered some pipe, and some reducer-hoses to go from the old hose (well, new silicon ones), to the stub, once I've broken the remaining plastic off the stub. I also have a new heater matrix on the way...to be replaced in another couple of months when I fit the Kenlowe heater....That'll make 6 coolant replacements/ bleeds within 12 months....OOOhhhh....FUN.....
Why I don't do all these jobs at once!!! ...truth to tell, my old hands only cope with so much work in a day before they sieze up in pain so all jobs get done in instalments......poor old biddy , eh?
Cheers
Helen

In my case, daft old bugger - not having been an oh so polite Wren Yes, read your drain, refill, drain, refill, etc......saga, Helen, and felt for you. Dunslair has suggested, in t'other thread, that "new shapes" (with what look like ally spigots - down from the rear heater matrix at least)), may no longer have had the plastic pipe collars/sleeves over them - am trying to get a second opinion on that. Cheers, David

[helen&tony]

Hi David
Sounds good...maybe that's what's called hindsight on Mazda's part...If I remember , I'll take some pictures of the problem...but it's gratifying to know that Mazda might have changed their minds on the later ones.
To be honest, I loathe plasticy bits in cooling systems....what on earth posessed someone to fit a plastic moulding on top of a well-made radiator matrix, sealed on with goodness only knows what. They can be repaired over here, and they splay the clenched top, remove the sealant, blast the core out, and refit and clench, and to be fair to the chaps that do it, that sort of repair is done perfectly over here...it's technology that they struggle with...and counting past 10 ...the minister of finance over here is a prime example of the last remark......I think he misread the job application, and thought they wanted a minister of AGRONOMY...and not ECONOMY
Anyway, that aside, I ordered an all-metal one from England last year (Radiator....not Finance Minister)...and I'm very happy with it
Cheers
Helen

[Ron Miel]

>
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......They can be repaired over here, and they splay the clenched top, remove the sealant, blast the core out, and refit and clench, and to be fair to the chaps that do it, that sort of repair is done perfectly over here...
>
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Learned the hard way under previous Eastern Bloc managament, I reckon Helen. I'm currently reading Alastair Humphreys' "Thunder and Lightning", Book 2 of his brilliant cycle round the world saga. Leaving Magadan, centre of Siberia's most murderous former Gulag region, he got a few days out on the road and his bike's free wheel mechanism collapsed. Back to Magadan, to wait for a new one from the States via Fedex. Fedex lost it, or otherwise failed to deliver, so a Russian friend said "give it here", and promptly rebuilt it, never having seen one before. Don't know if he eventually got back home on it, as I haven't yet got that far - but it's already done better than the original, part of a brand new replacement bike from the States which "only"(!!) covered Canada and Alaska before falling apart in Siberia. No wonder Bongos do well in Russia, and your part of the world. Cheers, David

[helen&tony]

Hi David
They are blessed with "Knack", here...quite able, unless it's complicated, and they always know best ...except it takes months of learning and application to teach them how to jack up a Bongo......the last time I left it with the spanner man, I felt quite confident.....only to find that he had flattened the sill seam, and we had to repair it....goodness knows how many times we've shown him not to jack on the sills
The most able primitive thing I've seen done was a film on a remote South American tribe, who take their produce by dugout canoe to market.....with a SOCKING great Mercury outboard on the back....most auto mechanics in the UK would shy off a Merc. engine , but these jungle people can fiddle about with them like factory experts....and they've never seen them....now how's that???
Cheers
Helen

[Ron Miel]

....most auto mechanics in the UK would shy off a Merc. engine , but these jungle people can fiddle about with them like factory experts....and they've never seen them....now how's that???

As our older son, ISN1 (Idiot Son Number 1), would put it, "coolio!"