New Heads ???????

[Dave.]

I wish there was a fact sheet on the actual differences with the heads that cost £650 and heads that cost £200 and those inbetween,

being as its a huge huge common expensive bongo problem ,weak point if coolant loss occurs ,we have lots of information and options /products

on prevention of head damage but none on the remedies which end the lives of lots of bongo's

Is there anyone on here with any technical info of the build quality or photo evidence of the differences ?

or is it just hear say?

Can anyone say "ive fitted the ebay £200 cheapo head and its been great for the past two years? or the opposite ?

Lots of people suddenly pipe up "stay away from the chineese ebay ones " i want to know why ? did one fail on you?

or is it so we spend £650 ? or is it because the cheap ones do have a high fail rate and are exactly that cheap rubbish false economy etc etc

i am sorry for all the questions ,but i think its a valid topic .


Just to start it off

I have a receipt for a BF garage repair 6 months ago to date

To replace the head supply and fit (head was purchased and fitted BF friendly recommended garage)

supply and fit £1200 with a filter service

5 months later the water pump failed (see my thred for pics " new and poorly bongo")

I have removed the head as it had little compression and wouldn't start

took the head to a machine shop for skimming and testing .

Collected it today its scrap having an internal crack letting water go down into the engine via where the diesel injects the fuel

So £1200 repair 5 months on scrap head and waterpump

So if i got the cheap head i could buy the coolant alarm and the mason thingy to prevent this happening again ?

from my experience an expensive head will crack anyway?

Please help !

p.s. sorry for boring you to death

[Ian]

Dave, you raise a number of interesting points. I'll leave it for others to discuss the technical issues, but on the subject of price, be careful to compare like-with-like.

The "dressed" cylinder head available through the Bongo Shop comes with a number of additional items and also includes postage. Then VAT at 20% is added on top.

The actual breakdown of costs is as follows:

Cylinder Head £348.00
Gaskets, bolts, pegs, valves, adjusters, cam belt etc £175.00
Postage £10.33
VAT £106.67

[haydn callow]

It sounds as though your garage did a decent job but 5 months later the Water Pump failed causing overheating and another head failure......new head/old head/cheap head/expensive head....if they overheat the result will be the same......it would always be prudent to change w/pump and stat and even radiator when fitting a new head.....you were just unlucky.

Cheap heads from China @£200....I belive they are poor quality and some of the coolant/oil ways do not always line up exactly........not what you need on a Bongo..

A Low Coolant Alarm will often give early warning and save the day...

[Dave.]

Dave, you raise a number of interesting points. I'll leave it for others to discuss the technical issues, but on the subject of price, be careful to compare like-with-like.

The "dressed" cylinder head available through the Bongo Shop comes with a number of additional items and also includes postage. Then VAT at 20% is added on top.

The actual breakdown of costs is as follows:

Cylinder Head £348.00
Gaskets, bolts, pegs, valves, adjusters, cam belt etc £175.00
Postage £10.33
VAT £106.67

There are heads on ebay that are more expensive than bongo shop

so £348 plus vat is approx £420 plus delivery for bare head and ebay bare head is £210 including the vat delivered so i was wondering if anyone knows the difference between the heads quality wise

so bongo shop head bare is twice the price of the ebay one as a bare unit .

will the bongo shop one last longer? ,or less likely to crack if coolant loss occurs ?

as the £ difference could buy my a coolant alarm and masons gauge ? and some spare .

Im not disputing the costs here just want to know why people say dont buy a cheap one .

The current climate is forcing consumers to obtain the best value for money in everything we buy

it was just a thred to retreve info on quality information for someone like me with the need to buy one and fast to get me on the road again

[Dave.]

Cheap heads from China @£200....I belive they are poor quality and some of the coolant/oil ways do not always line up exactly........not what you need on a Bongo..

A Low Coolant Alarm will often give early warning and save the day...

This is the info we need so the holes dont line up yes this would be very bad .

Can a fact sheet be made for people like me needing to purchase a head can read to avoid wastig £200+ on bad heads?

[Doone]

Can a fact sheet be made for people like me needing to purchase a head can read to avoid wastig £200+ on bad heads?.....i was wondering if anyone knows the difference between the heads quality wise

A 'search' on the forum found suppliers mentioned, who have sold members a decent product that has lasted well.
There's also mention of products that have not been so good.

As one example, a mechanic was supplied with a 'complete' cylinder head by his customer. The customer had bought the 'complete' head on EBay. When it arrived, there was documention that said it had been manufactured in China.
This particular head had to be skimmed because the insets in the combustion chambers were 10 thou proud, so wouldn't have sealed against the head gasket. The injector heat shields were missing and there was no oil gallery plug. There may have been other problems, but I can't remember what else was said.

My advice to you would be if you're interested in buying any head, no matter what the price, you could ask the seller lots of questions about it, until you're certain you're buying something you're happy with.

[francophile1947]

I suspect it's a bit like spanners. You can get chrome vanadium spanners, from Poundland, for a lot less than branded ones, but there's chrome vanadium and there's chrome vanadium - which do you reckon would break first? I reckon that, in the same way, there's aluminium and there's aluminium

[mikeonb4c]

The way I see it, the Bongo Shop is not especially cheap, but critical parts ought to be of reliable quality as it has a reputation to maintain. With some things I'd be happy enough shopping around for best price. With other more critical bits, I'd probably bite the bullet and pay extra for (relative) peace of mind. Of course if you could find where the Bongo Shop sources their product from.......... But even so, I think the Bongo Shop would be good on refund should a product be deemed defective (which of course is most likely to be spotted by an experienced quality mechanic such as Allan), and that too is worth a premium.

And no, I'm not on commission

[Dave.]

I think im going to buy a cheap one and have them looked at (in a non destructive way)

i know mine is 6 months old and now bust but there can be some comparisons ,i.e.hole locations etc

[bigdaddycain]

Do you happen to know the origin of your last head that went pop Dave? ( i mean have you contacted the garage and actually asked whom was their supplier? Or did you get the old "head would have popped anyway because the pump was fluffed" explanation?)

The waterpump at the very least should have at least been suggested for replacement by whatever garage did the job...How much is a pump? £70? if that?

RE the cost of one head compared to another, on the surface i'd echo what Franco posted... You get what you pay for.

Thankfully the head on my bongo has never had problems (hopefully it never will), but if it does go pop, i'd change the WP, stat and rad as a precaution...well, if i'm paying money out anyway, i may well pay for a bit of peace of mind whilst i'm at it!

[bigdaddycain]

I think im going to buy a cheap one and have them looked at (in a non destructive way)

i know mine is 6 months old and now bust but there can be some comparisons ,i.e.hole locations etc

Has the vendor assured you that he will refund you in full if you have the head inspected but aren't happy with it?

[TonyBee]

The oft quoted adage "Buy cheap, buy twice" springs to mind whilst reading this thread.
You could ask any trades person why their toolkit is filled with expensive tools when there are plenty of cheap alternatives and you may well hear the above.
My own experience is that cheap tools break under normal use as they are made from inferior materials (normally cream cheese for spanners!) and where extra costs also comes in is quality control.
The quality and suitability of materials has to be checked and supplies have to be constantly checked to ensure they maintain that quality.
It takes time and skill to machine parts accurately and consistantly. Tooling and expertise is not cheap. Tests have to be made to ensure that random samples of the product meet the required standards.
Measurements have to be taken to ensure the finished product is the right size and shape so it fits in wherever it is meant to go.

When I buy an expensive 19mm spanner I know the jaw gap will be 19mm and it will not bend or break the first time I have to use it in anger or round off the offending nut.
I have a brake pipe flaring tool that cost me £130 and I originally got one for £15 from ebay but after wasting much time and pipe I spent the extra on a decent quality one. When I compare the results they produce I know which one I would trust to use on my vehicles, that, and the fact it produces flares of the highest quality first time every time means it will eventually pay for itself.

The extra money for a quality cylinder head comes from using materials of a known quality and the time taken to ensure all the holes are in the right place and any excess casting material is removed plus the fact that the sealing surface will be flat.

It is your money so by all means save yourself a few £££s and take a punt on Chinese quality but my own experience of Chinese manufactured goods means I would never waste my hard earned on them.

Tony.

[bigdaddycain]

Great post Tony! I'd blow £5.95 on a chicken chow mein though! Otherwise i'd steer clear of chinese gear.

[Dave.]

hehe i emailed the guy with the cheap head , then hey presto the listing has changed to £400 lol just because i showed interest ? strange

The garage that did the job was mercedes main dealer , (the previous owener had the work done)not me so i cant comment on pump options.

im going for a new engine as i cant be sure the bottom is good other than word of previous owner

[321Away]

Cant comment on heads as have never used cheaper ones, but i can definitely state that cheap gasket sets almost always fail and mean job needs doing twice! But that said have never had issues with fitting customer supplied cheapy radiators as some of them are brazed/sealed (yes i know they're all 'sealed'!!) all metal units which reduces the chances of the top popping/weeping, so price isnt always a good indicator of what your getting tho in general if it looks too good or cheap to be true it usually is!!
Julian