Fitting a TM-2

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widdowson2008
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Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:44 pm

Fitting a TM-2
First of all, you need to appreciate precisely what the TM-2 will tell you. By securing the sender unit to any surface, the TM-2 will accurately relay the information to the readout unit.
The choice of sensor position is a matter of personal choice, ability, and a matter of what you want to look at.
Below are pics of actual units fixed in different places around the engine, with an explanation of what you will be seeing at the readout unit. The TM-2 is a very useful and informative piece of equipment and ideally should be used to its full capacity.
An upper alarm can be set such that you will not only get a visual display, but can set the alarm to warn you of impending problems. Personally, I have the audible alarm set to point where the fans are about to kick in. ie: thermostat has lost control.


There following diagrams explain the various points of fixing.

exhaust side (original recommended position)
Image
Initially, I fitted mine to the cylinder head on the passenger side – at the time, this was the recommended fixing point.
Because this point is directly above the exhaust manifold, it registered much hotter than the coolant temperature. I was quite happy with this position because at the time, I was not particularly interested in the coolant temperature. Haydn subsequently changed the recommended sensor position to the rear of the head. (see next pic)

Rear of head (current recommended position)
Image
The current recommended position is as shown in the pic.
This position will ‘simulate’ the coolant temperature.
The temperature at this point on the head is very similar to the hottest coolant temperature. However, from the pic, it can be seen that the sensor is mounted approximately 50mm away from the nearest coolant chamber.
The sensor is actually on the same level as the rocker shaft. Whilst producing a close approximation of the hottest coolant temperature, it still remains a simulation. In fact, in this position, the readout will give a reasonably accurate temperature of the rear camshaft pedestal bearing.
The original reason I didn’t fit mine here is that I could not get to the lower of the bolts to remove the cover and gain access. This is due to the flooring installed by 321 Away covering the bolt.

Front of head (Helens current position)

Image
Helen has her sensor fixed to the 2nd rocker cover bolt, and it was placed here because it is very close to the hottest coolant flow.
Again, whilst giving a very close approximation, this is also a ‘simulation’ – because again, it is fixed to the rocker cover and is in the region of 60mm (measured) away from the nearest coolant chamber.


Because I was (and still am) interested in the actual coolant temperature at the thermostat, none of the previous positions was ideal.
First of all, I looked at the absolute ideal which is to use the existing Mazda sensor which feeds the Mazda gauge. I know it would have meant disconnecting the Mazda gauge so it was basically redundant. No great loss there because it is useless anyway as all will agree. However, it would have meant connecting the TM-2 to the original sensor and introducing something similar to the Mason modification. In other words, ‘fudge it’. Those that know me will testify that ‘fudging’ things is not my way. I’ll leave that to the politicians.

The next option was to use one of Haydns ‘in-line’ adaptors. I was sorely tempted, but the thought of introducing another joint/clamp into the system with the associated potential leak-point, did not appeal at all. Shame.

My way
Image
So what I finished up doing was getting as near to this solution as I could by clamping the sensor to the metal part of the top hose connection at the point where it leaves the cylinder head. see pic above (In fact it was Kirsty who did the actual job for me).
The coolant flow at this point in the head divides into two. One goes to the top hose and the other goes directly to the thermostat. Both identical temperatures, so BINGO – job done.

The results of this is that I now have an accurate digital readout of the temperature at the thermostat. I have monitored this since fitted last year and the figures I’m getting are very informative indeed. It shows the thermostat actually working. I fitted (well Ady fitted) a new Mazda thermostat for me.
After bleeding. we raised the temperature of the engine to see when the fans kicked in. I don’t know what others Bongos do but mine kicked in at precisely 96°C which coincides exactly with when the thermostat loses control. They switched off again at 91°C, when the stat had regained control.
I have the TM-2 alarm set to 96°C so that I get a warning if things are erring towards the hot side.
On my way home, I was a VERY happy bunny. Meaningful readings.

Personally, I would recommend this fixing point to ALL TM-2 users, but that’s only my opinion, being the control freak that I am.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by mikeonb4c » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:33 pm

Personally, I would recommend this fixing point to ALL TM-2 users, but that’s only my opinion, being the control freak that I am.
..and if it can be agreed that this IS the best position, it will be so much more useful for gathering comparative data if all TM2 sensors were fitted in that position. Must get one myself one day.

I must flag up my reluctant to dismiss the Mazda original gauge/sensor as useless. It does have some use, but just not as an early warning system for overheating (like most cars of that vintage). 8)
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:44 pm

mikeonb4c wrote:
Personally, I would recommend this fixing point to ALL TM-2 users, but that’s only my opinion, being the control freak that I am.
..and if it can be agreed that this IS the best position, it will be so much more useful for gathering comparative data if all TM2 sensors were fitted in that position. Must get one myself one day.

I must flag up my reluctant to dismiss the Mazda original gauge/sensor as useless. It does have some use, but just not as an early warning system for overheating (like most cars of that vintage). 8)
Hi Mike
I'm not suggesting that folk change their position. All depends on what you want to look at. As Haydn quite rightly pointed out, people generally use it as a safeguard, and if they are happy with that, then fine. All I was trying to get across to folk is KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT. INTERPRET THE GAUGE CORRECTLY. It's a terrific piece of kit, and if you are monitoring the coolant, then LOOK at the coolant and not a pedestal bearing.

Mazda gauge? The only useful purpose mine has is that it fills up a circular hole in the instrument cluster. Look a right b****r if it were taken out.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by helen&tony » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:08 am

Hi
I agree with Steve on placing the TM2...I also have a sensor IN the water flow in the top hose, and the readings are similar to Steve's TM2...I did have one on the by-pass and I echo what Steve says...same sort of reading as the one in the water.
I've also got 4 or 5 other sensors we have been using to get data, but as a single purchase, I rate the one in the top hose...I mostly only check that one constantly, as it is the best indicator of overheating...forget the Mazda front sender!
Cheers
Helen
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:32 am

Thanks for input Helen. Forgot about the IN-LINE sensor :oops: :oops: . This is the ideal setup - Sensor in the actual coolant flow.
The reason I didn't persue this idea was that the IN-LINE adaptor I had was a plastic one and I was a little concerned about its durability. Damage to the plastic could, (and probably would) create a catastrophic leak. Not a roadside fix because you have to cut the hose in the first place to fit it, so your hose will be too short.
They are probably OK but I didn't want to take the risk.
However, Helen tells me that her adaptor is an aluminium construction. I would have far more confidence in that one.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by haydn callow » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:59 am

Steve, if you got the adapter from me it is not a simple plastic....it is a Glass Filled Nylon and suitable for the intended use......have no fear....it will do the job.
They are in use on some Very heavy plant in hoses of 80mm inside dia.
http://www.coolantalarm.co.uk
Developer of the Mazda Bongo Coolant loss Alarm
Also BMW Clocks
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:35 am

haydn callow wrote:Steve, if you got the adapter from me it is not a simple plastic....it is a Glass Filled Nylon and suitable for the intended use......have no fear....it will do the job.
They are in use on some Very heavy plant in hoses of 80mm inside dia.
Yep - it's one of yours. Didn't know exactly what it was made of. Reassured now.
I also have a sensor that came with it. It has 2 wires (blue and white). Assuming that it was also one of yours, what gauge do I need to wire it to? Do you have one?
Another thing about the sensor I have. The thread is the same as the Mazda temperature sensor at the front of the head (drivers side).
The sensor is somewhat shorter tham the Mazda one though. If it would pick up a signal at this point, it would be great. Would take the Noddy Mazda gauge out of the loop.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by haydn callow » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:45 am

You will need a CUBE alarm (ask Helen) to use that sensor with the Blue/White wires.....they have been discontinued now but I have a few left to get rid of.
The other thing you could do is adapt another type of sensor to fit that type of adapter....anything can be done.
See the web shop for details of the cube....don't buy from there though....ring me.
http://www.coolantalarm.co.uk
Developer of the Mazda Bongo Coolant loss Alarm
Also BMW Clocks
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:55 am

Cheers Hatdn :D
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by The Great Pretender » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:26 am

Way to go Steve......................wish I had thought of that.............. :lol: :lol: :lol:
When you have disseminated the mechanics of the coolant system completely and have free time.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Why not look at the pressure differentials around the system and how they made the coolant go around the system and not take its easiest route. With all those pipes equalising flow must have been hard work, even if, from a pure engineering point of view IMHO they got it a little wrong. :wink:
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:55 am

Hi Mel
Pressure differentials? A gismo to measure running pressures is currently in the throws of manufacture/construction. It will need a brain far better than mine though to interpret the data.
Another 'gismo' in production is a pump rig. What I hope to find out is the pressure/head and flow rate created by a Bongo water pump. Sad, but it beats the hell out of gardening and golf.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by mikeonb4c » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:22 am

The Great Pretender wrote:Way to go Steve......................wish I had thought of that.............. :lol: :lol: :lol:
When you have disseminated the mechanics of the coolant system completely and have free time.......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Why not look at the pressure differentials around the system and how they made the coolant go around the system and not take its easiest route. With all those pipes equalising flow must have been hard work, even if, from a pure engineering point of view IMHO they got it a little wrong. :wink:
[-X :lol: Mel - when I read Steve's post, a distant memory flashed across my mind. Once upon a time, didn't you have a hard time persuading The Great and the Good that an excellent position for siting the sensor was in the hosing near to the thermostat?

Steve - regarding my earlier post, I certainly wouldn't expect people to start shifting their sensors around once fitted, but the key word in my post is 'comparative': it could be useful/helpful/informative to collate figures from people and make comparisons/establish norms etc. and to that end, a recommended standard fitting position would be a helpful in future TM2 installation instructions . And Mels original recommendation for a position seems to be emerging as a strong candidate. But hey! 8)
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:36 am

Hi Mike
Yep. Gotta admit that it was Mel who first suggested that position to me on the grounds that it would give me a more accurate reading. AND HE WAS RIGHT. But I chose the Top hose connection. Exactly the same temperature.

Comparative figures? Totally agree with you. However, personally I see no value in getting the temperature of the rear rocker bearing pedestal.
Whilst it may be a close approximation to the coolant temperature, it still remains purely coincidental (as can be seen in the second pic).

And I'm not trying to pull one over on Haydn here. He suggested that position because it was convenient AND because it happened to be somewhere near the truth. It also has to be said that unlike me, Haydn did not have the benefit of a sectioned head to look at when making his decision, so he had to make an educated stab.
Steve
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by haydn callow » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:55 am

Inside the top hose has to be the best position if it's the "hotest" coolant you want to measure. However getting a sensor in there for the average DIY'er is a none starter....so somthing simple that will still warn of higher than normal temps had to be put forward.....
Putting a "supplied" bolt of the correct length through a "sensor lug" and bolting it up seemed to be the best course of action.
I had a sensor within the coolant flow just as the coolant exits the head and also one on the rear of the head......once everything was up to temp there was only a couple of degrees in it.
http://www.coolantalarm.co.uk
Developer of the Mazda Bongo Coolant loss Alarm
Also BMW Clocks
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Re: Fitting a TM-2

Post by widdowson2008 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:02 pm

Taking this to the next level. Very simple and VERY accurate, if it works...........................if it works. :wink:

Need to poach a few members brains first.
Steve
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