another looming head job - Canada

[progroup]

Yes, I too have recently purchased a Bongo!
Yes, I too asked and checked with previous owner... "has it ever overheated?"
Yes, I thoroughly checked the expansion tank colouration and contents and anti-freeze coolant levels, etc.

I had no reason to suspect that something was wrong! I turned down Delica and Pajero and Bighorn, and other Japan Imports alike because of the cronic aluminum head troubles on 2.5TD, 2.8TD, and 3.1TD.

Judging by the 2.5TD Mazda Diesel WL Turbo design, I thought it to be better engineered. Maybe I am duped here, but I really thought it to be a reasonable vehicle family to marry into to.

Consequently, I must re & re the head, and have my local machine shop presure test and repair any cracks. There are absolutely ZERO parts or criss-cross listings for Bongos. Canada has a 15 year restriction for importing any vehicle from Japan. My Bongo is the first; 1995 VIN# SLG5-106861.

I need a trusted international supplier of Bongo parts. Japan Auto Solutions appears to be one. Otherwise, any advice would be helpful as I haven't worked on any Bongos before this one. I need some mechanical support, verbal and a shop/service manual from amazon or where ever AND/OR a downloadable version software or PDF format. Any such thing?

My quick bio is... 53years old, use to twist wrenches for a living 30+ years ago. I still have all my shop tools, air, lifts, and space, including a hoist. I have personally wreck over 70 vehicles and use to own and maintain a service garage back in the 80's.

I am in love with diesels which is part of my 'quirkiness', and I get a lot of laughs about my Bongo Firendee! A goofy name in the North American market.

[westonwarrior]

Hi and welcome

The club has extensive fact sheets and this forum is a welth of knowledge including compatable parts
as for the head a ford ranger head can be used but the bleeding is difficult unless you change the t piece but that may be a cheaper option than getting an entire head shipped.

A full head is available from the club shop, pre built, not the cheapest option but we hear stories of te cheap chineese heads not being up to the job or fit properly best to contact Ian to see about shipping or parts can be got direct from Japan If you have the contacts, (I wish )

Manuals are available too

The forum is a wealth of knowledge and its full of people only too willing to help

Rob

[progroup]

Hi Rob; thanks for the faithful prompt reply!
New to the Bongo thing; I am impressed with all the global support! North America, and more specifically Canada are really missing out. Fuel and energy costs have sored recently. I saw this coming years ago!

Q: Why would I sell my '07 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 3.8 V6 Auto with extended warranty, free oil changes for life, replacement insurance, and only 64k since I bought new, for a 15 year old 185k Bongo RHD? But I did!

Even though this is the Victoria Day Holiday here as well, I will need to get busy and pull the head off tomorrow or Monday in preparation to have repaired. The reputation here in Vancouver, BC for Chineese built engine components is 'crude' and 'crappy'.

Unfortunately for me, I have no other connections but you folks in the UK. Do you guys deal in BPG or Euros? Is Japan Auto Solutions the best source for me to order from? Can you gove me a non-bias opinion?

Dave

[mikeonb4c]

Welcome progroup, though sorry it is under these circumstances. I have a brother who flies helicopters in BC - keep telling him to get a Bongo but he's gone for an old Westie.

How common is it to find a Bongo imported into Canada, where you are right hand drive? And what made you choose a Bongo over say, a Granvia or a Hiace (or even a Delica, given the offroad opportunities in Canada).

Anyway, a good running Bongo is a great, compact MPV/van/campervan, so its a pity so have had problems. Our of interest, what were the symptoms that first alerted you to problems and how soon did they happen after you bought the car? Was it a private or a dealer purchase. What does the vendor have to say about it?

15yrs before you can import means you have a high risk of tired/low grade Bongos being imported I guess, as supply of ones that old is drying up (we've had a shedload of Bongos over here before you guys ever got to see them ).

Anyway, whatever, it needs fixing. If you have good contacts and think you can successfullly weld up the head if its cracked, then I guess it might be interesting to try. Rob's advice about the head kit from the BF shop is a good one (though not cheap I daresay by the time it is shipped to Canada). Other things that seem to matter are to ensure that the head is true and the mating surface also, AND that the block is flatted to ensure a really good mate. At least one owner on here (Simon Jones) used gasket sealant, even though you are supposed not to need to.

One recent issue that has been raised on here is whether a warped head, even if skimmed etc., can leave the camshaft running out of true, leading to the camshaft breaking (and possible damage then if valves hit pistons etc.). So check trueness all round if attempting a repair.

You will also want to identify what caused the head to fail and fix the underlying cause (problem in the cooling system due to clogging, jammed shut thermostat, water pump issues, tired/leaky hoses etc.)

And I would always fit a low coolant alarm to a Bongo as unnoticed coolant loss and overheating is a real risk on older Bongos with complex plumbing and tired, hidden hoses.

But as a mechanic, you'll know all this - I only mention it just in case.

Good luck, keep us posted, and anything we can do etc. Once properly sorted, the Bongo is a great motor,and its certainly best owned by someone with mechanics skills, where it can be a project. Out of interest, has it been given any protection against rust, as that is another issue.

Oh and the name is considered as much of a joke over here as it is in Cda. BUT, that is what helps make such a memorable car, and you get to love it after the initial bemusement.

Mike

[daveblueozzie]

Hi and welcome, I have used JAS for parts for my bongo, (nothing as major as a head) they have a good reputation as far as i am concerned.

[lazyb5]

Hi, Dave(progroup) Sorry to hear about the head but its just a standard head off skim if needed and replace. The ford Ranger has the same engine, I would have thought you could get one of them shipped to you easier than getting one from uk. I myself will be buying a service manual from the club shop shortly so i cant tell you how detailed it is but hopefully it will cover alll jobs i need to do. There are fact sheets about most things in the members area which is really handy, and i would definitely get a low water alarm.
As an aside are you watching the playoffs and if so which team.

[mikeonb4c]

Hi, Dave(progroup) Sorry to hear about the head but its just a standard head off skim if needed and replace. The ford Ranger has the same engine, I would have thought you could get one of them shipped to you easier than getting one from uk. I myself will be buying a service manual from the club shop shortly so i cant tell you how detailed it is but hopefully it will cover alll jobs i need to do. There are fact sheets about most things in the members area which is really handy, and i would definitely get a low water alarm.
As an aside are you watching the playoffs and if so which team.

Be aware - The BF sold Workshop Manual is a lot better than nothing, but its not great (its an imperfect translation from Japanese, and not all Bongo systems are covered though most key ones are)

[scanner]

The ford Ranger has the same engine, I would have thought you could get one of them shipped to you easier than getting one from uk.

But NOT the North American market/US Ford Ranger, as that is a completely different animal altogether. The UK Ford Ranger is a Mazda made in Thailand the NA/US Ranger is a Ford made (I think) in Kentucky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger

NA/US Ranger parts will not be suitable for a Bongo, but parts from an imported Mazda B2500 of the right age may well be.

[progroup]

Well thanks guys for all the initial support! thanks Mike, Dave, and Lazy boy!

I certainly need the moral support given the situation. Like I commented previous, giving up the Jeep Wrangler was primarily to rising fuel costs and a payment to boot. I figured I could save in fuel AND eliminate the payment. So far I have paied off the loan.

I bought the only Bongo because it was a suitable replacement. I tow my trailer w/two quads a couple times each month into the beautiful backyard of BC. Absolutely georgious country and space! I liked the Bongo's inherent versatilty with the free air top option. My son and I can escape w/o the need for a tent or tent trailer camping in this thing. Great for family excursions as well. We just got back from Whistler, BC last evening which is about a 2 hour drive from Surrey, BC [call it Vancouver area].

Last night, I took 6 passengers to/from Whistler [knowing the head problem!] for a round trip of 317km, $1.35/L, or $46.30 consumed in diesel. I had to add water once in Whistler, about a litre or so. During the trip, I noticed a few overheating conditions towards the "H", but had enough downhills to cool off, the ambient temp was about 21 degrees celcius or 70 degrees F.

Crazy as I am, I wanted to take the Bongo anyway. Today, I drove it around on erans and everything is good!

Am I doing worse damage to the bottom end? Should I go further and just fully rebuild it? Difficult to say, for I have invested only $5,250 CDN buying it, and about another $1,500 in accessories/expenses.

Here is the story behind this VIN#: Imported privately in Feb.2011, registered on 24th, owner took trip to Costa Rica, South America for six weeks and returned advertising for sale on Craigslist April 30th. I spoted the ad and purchased the following day after an extensive road test and inspection. The tires were brand new less the 17,000k he put on them during the trip. It would appear to me now that I was fooled. He must have realized the head problem and thus was hoping a guy like me would show up.

As it turned out, he advertized for $7,900 CDN. I got him down to $5,500 from my offer of $5k, we settled in the middle at 5.5k.

I have driven it now 21 days inclusive. Spent over 4 hours under a hoist doing a thorough visual w/85 pictures. I pulled all wheels, removed all calipers, pads, rotors, mic'd each part for wear. Tabled all other likely parts to be changed, like CV boots, ball joints, etc. The U-joints, Center Support Bearing, mounts, hoses, fans, belts, exhaust, etc, etc - no worries!

I was impressed for a vehicle to be in this great a shape after 185,000k. Normally, for a domestic Canadian car, I wouldn't pay $500 given the mileage. That's the hook with these Japan imports. They are usually in great condition!

We have many sources locally now for Delica, Pajeros, etc. These guys are Japanese, Korean, and Afganie! Their parts are imported direct from Japan, Korea, or China. But they haven't imported any Bongos yet. This is why I turn to you folks!

I have babbled a fair amount herein given the time of day... 02:30AM PST. At the very least, I must order a head set from JAS, but why the bolts too? Should I or is it recommended to plane the block too?

Lastly, I need to order a tow bar/hitch kit preferasbly from BongoBits, but they do not ship online to Canada. They haven't answered my email as yet. JAS has a kit also w/o wiring. Would it be okay to tow approx. 3,000lbs? We call that a Class 3 hitch here in Canada. We also use a 2" square receiver. The Bongo is difficult to fab a hitch for. My local shop wants $600 CDN "ouch1" for a custom made tow bar assembly. JAS and BongoBits are $97 + VAT.

I notice that some parts are similar on the Mazda MPV. I still own one, a 1998 MPV 3.0L Petrol. Any comments?

What year of Ford Ranger has the same engine? Everywhere I look here in North America, can't find a single one! Parts dealers show no listing. I once had a brand new Ford Ranger in 1986 with a diesel, but I thought it was a Mits version.

A little too much wine tonight and getting tired. Bujt I look forward to any input postitive or negative any of you might have.
Don't hesitate to tell me what ever. I am committed to resolving this soon! Meanwhile, my backup car, the MPV will have to suffice until I can resurect the Bongo.

Cheers from Canuckville...
Dave

[progroup]

Thanks scanner and mike1
I see the online Service Manual for Bongos as $60 pounds or what a $100 CDN or so. Any better manual you know of?

I am a Canuks fan obviously! But I regret that work has deflected most of my attention away from the net. That's 'goal net' of course. Difficult to predict their outcome, Iwas major dissapointed some years ago in 2004.

Bongo blues and I'm out of wine! Ah, I notice a little Gibson's here instead. That should do the trick until I face the inevitable, eh?

Wanted to solicit your opinions as to whether I should drive this any further until fixing the head. Any likely damage to the rest of the engine? I have had blown head gaskets on other cast diesels, like the infamous Nissan SD22, 2.2L normally asperated. Please comment if experience suggests otherwise!

Cheers, Dave... the new found bongobum.

[dobby]

Hi

I'd be reluctant to drive it too much more, you're probably over stressing the rest of the cooling system and risking $$$'s £££'s etc.

The head has only gone because it has overheated so find the cause of the overheat and budget for all new hoses, radiator, water pump and stat and also think about fan sensors as well. Buy as much genuine stuff as you can and then invest in a coolant loss alarm, temp gauge (TM2) or mason alarm

Looks like you paid the equivalent of a uk market rate for a reasonable bongo (head aside) so factoring in rarity and novelty value then adding say £2,000 (uk) parts/labour costs should give you a good vehicle.

Good luck

[widdowson2008]

I have babbled a fair amount herein given the time of day... 02:30AM PST. At the very least, I must order a head set from JAS, but why the bolts too? Should I or is it recommended to plane the block too?Dave

I presume you are talking about the head bolts here.
Over a period of time, the bolts WILL stretch due to the high working forces involved and it is recommended that they are renewed when fitting a new head.
However, if cash is an issue, you can replace them PROVIDING they are within the specific allowed limits for stretch stated in the manual.
Personally, if I were going to do this job, I would replace them. If you want the manual specified limits I would be glad to send the information (pm your email address).

[Northern Bongolow]

have you ruled out everything else. have you pressure tested the cooling system,i made a gadget that holds 1 bar of pressure for a long period, then get it up on the ramps and check very carefully for leaks.
all the usuall suspects leak,and let air in to the system, water pump (hard to spot if leaking when hot from the bottom tell tale hole in the casting). hoses.heater matrix's.radiator at the top and bottom seams.
also if the cap is faulty this drops the pressure of the system and allows the coolant to boil earlier than it should.

look on youtube there are 3 videos on how to bleed a mazda bongo by b*witched blingo,these may help .

good luck.

[mikeonb4c]

Should I or is it recommended to plane the block too?

Shouldn't need to do that - I thinks its just about making sure the surface is nicely flatted (using something like wet and dry paper against a flat peice of stone such as marble - PM Simon Jones for how he did it) to ensure a good mate with the new head gasket. Obviously need to make sure you don't get abrasive material in the bores while doing hte job but I think Simon handled that by packing them with cloth so nothing could slip by and then pulling the cloth out carefully befor giving the bores a good wipe round to ensure they were spotless.

[progroup]

Thank you all, I concur with the advice streaming my way. I will document the whole process and take pictures as well.
Today is Sunday, I have had my day of rest already for this week!
In a few hours after dismantle, the tell tale story will reveal itself. Yes, I do know better, for in my previous life, I performed many rebuilds and overhauls on engines. I still have my Snap-On valve spring compressor, ha ha!
I do not require any manual for re & re work, but specifications would help big time. For example, where can I do in a jiffy to get specs on bongos like Head bolt torquing, valve clearances, etc?

Later, I will post up my own mod pertaining to the Low Coolant Sensor issue. General Motors makes over 70 different models of cars and trucks. the later GM products like Oldsmobile, Buick, Cavalier, etc., all come standard with expansion tanks with built-in level sensors. I purchased one new at first, then returned it after sourcing an endless supply at the wreckers [that's Breaker's for UK folk!]. Using some of the online PDF files I found on the subject, it makes clear sense to do this mod - thus signaling the driver via a light/alarm show. I'll have to wait until repairing the head before I can offer up any comments.

One of the things that is causing me grief here is not knowing enough about the Bongo in general. What else is looming in the background, eh? Fortunately for me, I have 5 other vehicles to make do with while fixing the Bongo.

Again, can't thank you guys enough for your very prompt replies to the matter.

cheers,
Dave