Fuse 8 - Cigar lighters, Mirrors, radio - battery discharge

[Alifriendee]

This is a link to the orange Smartcom relay box webpage.

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/product ... ?prod=1967

Initially puzzled why it's there at the back. There was no leisure battery fitted when we bought the Bongo. I've just been reminded by my other half that the previous owner said they had a caravan so this must have been part of a power supply to the caravan. This will explain the two towbar electrical sockets at the back of the Bongo.



I connect my rear lighting board to the lower one when I have my bak-rak fitted but have never used the top one which I notice has a different pin arrangement. I don't know why it's different. I think the cable to which the orange relay box is fitted is connected to this top socket so I'm guessing the caravan had it's own leisure battery and this socket provided charging power to it, controlled by the relay box.

[Getcarter]

Great post, I have just fitted a willinton kit and also (thanks to this) discovered I have a 110v inverter fitted as well

How did you get on re routing the inverter supply to the socket?

EDIT: I have now just unplugged the white plug from the bottom of the inverter and the light next to the 110v socket is now out. However the 12v socket still works. If I leave it like this will this be OK and not drain the LB?

[Alifriendee]

OK I've now educated myself on the difference between a 12N socket and a 12S socket. I now understand why we've got one of each. Not relevant to this thread but interesting nonetheless.


"Tow bar electrical sockets.

Cars which are fitted for towing caravans will also be fitted with at least one, if not two electrical connection sockets attached to or adjacent to the tow ball. Commonly known as 12N and 12S sockets. Power from the vehicles indicators, fog lights and sidelights is transferred to the caravan lights of the same type through the 12N socket, whereas the supplemental power required by the caravans reversing lights, battery charger and fridge are sourced through the 12S socket. If you are fitting your own 12S socket you need to remember to fit a split charge relay to your car as well, this ensures that power to these high drain devices on your caravan only flows when the ignition is turned on. Should you not fit a relay of this type to your car and take a break during a long tow, you are likely to find that your car battery will not have enough power to start the engine when you resume your journey.

There are some important differences in the 12N and 12 S socket wiring in caravans manufactured up to 1998 and after 1999. The 12N connection has larger cables to help reduce voltage drop, however the pin allocation is identical to that of 1998. The 12S cable sizes for 1999 models have been increased to reduce voltage drop and improve load capacity. The car charge line (blue cable) is now left unused, the caravan battery is now charged via the green cable whilst the car engine is running, when the car is not running the green cable reverts to providing a power supply from the car battery, this action is produced from a relay fitted in the caravan. Also the fridge negative has been separated to reduce the loading on the system which unfortunately may cause compatibility issues with some older cars.

The 12N socket.

The socket is coloured black and houses 7 pins which are are numbered 1 to 7 and need to be connected using the correct grade wiring as follows (1998 Pin Allocation).:

1. Yellow Left turn signal
2. Blue Fog light's
3. White Earth
4. Green Right turn signal
5. Brown Right hand side light
6. Red Brake lights
7. Black Left hand side light

The 12S socket

The socket is coloured grey and houses 7 pins which are are numbered 1 to 7 and need to be connected connected using the correct grade wiring as follows :

1998 Pin Allocation
1. Yellow Reversing light
2. Blue Caravan Battery or charger
3. White Earth
4. Green Constant 12v feed
5. Brown Sensing device
6. Red Refrigerator
7. Black Spare


1999 Pin Allocation
1. Yellow Reversing light
2. Blue Spare
3. White Negative for Lights & Charge
4. Green Interior Light & Charge
5. Brown Spare
6. Red Refrigerator
7. Black Negative for Fridge"

[jaylee]

I have to admit.. Camping stuff is where my knowledge stops.



All i know is i see far too many scotch locks tied into that loom possibly for just the trailer tail light circuit..?

Cars which are fitted for towing caravans will also be fitted with at least one, if not two electrical connection sockets attached to or adjacent to the tow ball. Commonly known as 12N and 12S sockets. Power from the vehicles indicators, fog lights and sidelights is transferred to the caravan lights of the same type through the 12N socket, whereas the supplemental power required by the caravans reversing lights, battery charger and fridge are sourced through the 12S socket. If you are fitting your own 12S socket you need to remember to fit a split charge relay to your car as well, this ensures that power to these high drain devices on your caravan only flows when the ignition is turned on. Should you not fit a relay of this type to your car and take a break during a long tow, you are likely to find that your car battery will not have enough power to start the engine when you resume your journey.

The 12S socket

The socket is coloured grey and houses 7 pins which are are numbered 1 to 7 and need to be connected connected using the correct grade wiring as follows :

1998 Pin Allocation
1. Yellow Reversing light
2. Blue Caravan Battery or charger
3. White Earth
4. Green Constant 12v feed
5. Brown Sensing device
6. Red Refrigerator
7. Black Spare


1999 Pin Allocation
1. Yellow Reversing light
2. Blue Spare
3. White Negative for Lights & Charge
4. Green Interior Light & Charge
5. Brown Spare
6. Red Refrigerator
7. Black Negative for Fridge"

Caravan additional marker lights; would they be powered from the tail light circuit or the 12S socket & caravan LB??


(Top left of the pic) That bundle of wires looks like the rear light loom.. & do i see a scotch look tied to a yellow wire mid bundle (From memory) for the reverse light??

[Alifriendee]

I'm a bit depressed to report a low leisure battery this morning, despite having removed the mysterious inverter from the system. With no time left to do anything more for this weekend I've pulled all the fuses bar no.1 and will live in my muddy field using just the lighting and radio. No hardship compared to those in all the thousands of tents!

Will have another look next week, which may include visiting Manbat in Bristol to ask them to check the LB again. They were very helpful last time around when it was replaced under warranty but I'd be surprised if it was the battery as it's been checked before. However the last 12 months of unusual use where it has been discharging to a low level all the time may have damaged it. I have a CTEK charger so have run it through their reconditioning functions and it is supposed to have a diagnostic function that will warn you if the battery cannot hold a charge but it hasn't indicated a problem.

I'm beginning to think I may have to pay an auto electrician to check everything as I don't have the skills to go around checking where there may be a draw on power. I own a Multimeter but I pick it up and stare at it, and then carefully put it back in it's box. I know my limits!

[jaylee]

One idea..! What is the state of the OEM strip light in the back of the van?? I have read on here a long time ago that a failing/dim tube, even when off can cause a drain...!!

Could your central locking also be running off the LB??

[Alifriendee]

We did have a failing bulb in the central overhead light and replaced it last Summer.

I had heard the wiring inside this light can deteriorate so will open it up after searching the forum again to find the comments on what to check. We leave the light at the "off" position rather than "door" because of this potential concern.

The central locking was moved to the LB when all the LB installation was done but I'm pretty sure I moved it back to the vehicle battery when I re-fixed all the wiring. I'll check for peace of mind. It should be running through fuse 4 so it's easily checked.

I am tempted to remove the orange relay and the caravan towbar socket and it's wiring which will also get rid of many of the scotchlock connectors. I haven't checked what wiring the relay is attached to but I would expect it to be on a switched live and not on the LB so I might be best leaving it alone.

I'm going to take the full side panel off when I have a quiet moment as there has never been a speaker in that side of the rear so I can fix that also. Hopefully the speaker wiring will be there. There is a speaker on the drivers side rear.

I'll remove the 110v inverter and enjoy chucking it in the bin!

[missfixit70]

May be best to disconnect the centre light entirely, just undo the 3 screws under the plastic diffuser & there's a plug underneath, it's a complicated bit of kit in there I've cut out all that circuitry & fitted led strips inside instead. Should be less of a current draw then too.

[jaylee]

May be best to disconnect the centre light entirely, just undo the 3 screws under the plastic diffuser & there's a plug underneath, it's a complicated bit of kit in there I've cut out all that circuitry & fitted led strips inside instead. Should be less of a current draw then too.

Or just remove the bulb?

That's my plan on the strip light housing too.. I put led's in everywhere else!

[321Away]

Or just remove the bulb?

Better off disconnecting as if there was a problem i'd suspect the transformer in the light rather than just the bulb

Julian

[Alifriendee]

Sounds a good idea as I've a plan to put LED lights into the vehicle.

It's just the sort of thing I do. I buy a replacement bulb and also a spare, thus doubling the cost, and then rip it out and change it!

[missfixit70]

This is what's in there, & you can see the lump I cut off, with tube connectors & transistor/heatsink disconnected



This is how I connected it, Blue wire (live feed) moved across to the hole where the tube connector was desoldered, this is connected to the led positive, then the led negative is the wire snaking through t'other hole connected to the 3rd row or switch connectors, this allows the light to be used as on/door/off



This is what I used (cos I had it lying around anyway) 3m double sided tape holding it on, think I had to trim the length slightly (trim in lots of 3 "dimples") it was a 48cm strip I think, although any led replacement lights that physically fit in there would do the job, the blocks of 36 or 48 might do the job really nicely & they come with connectors so you can just plug/unplug





Possibly bright enough with the 1st attempt with only one strip, but as I had a longer strip I thought I'd try it. That's plenty bright enough for me I reckon

The red wire is the negative switched door switch (ie switching earth) the black wire is fixed earth.

[Alifriendee]

Nice job. Summer project for me!

[Alacrity]

Just a thought on diagnosing. If you have or have access to a multimeter, set it to read amps, pull no 8 fuse & put the meter across the terminals in place of the fuse. You will now be able to see what current is being drawn on that circuit & will instantly see when you disconnect the offending item. Saves waiting to see if the battery goes down overnight.

You never know, you may find there is more than one culprit!

[Jaws]

Hi Alifriendee
Glad you found the inverter and disconnected it! Sorry to hear you still seem to have a problem with current leak
Unfortunately it looks like a previous owner has had a good go at making a dog's dinner of the wiring Alacrity's advice is good but not all multimeters can handle the current involved.
I think you mentioned it was a 'northern spec' van originally so there may be some variations in the wiring. I also had some issues with the way my Zig 9 unit was connected: these can be bit of a mystery when used in a camper van
I ended up fitting a dedicated battery monitor for the LB so that I could always see what was going on and get plenty of warning if it was getting too low.
I have also replaced all internal lights with LEDs apart from the main fluorescent in the back. This is left switched off unless needed, not on door switching.
Hope you find Your your solution soon