What the heck has happened now (photos attached)

[rita]

Valve retaining collett popped out and allowed valve to drop?I.E. whoever installed the valve didn't make sure the colletts were seated properly ?

Second that - were the collets and spring retainer still lying in the cam cover?

Collet has sprung out, valve dropped, piston had smashed into the dropped valve and cleaved the valve head off........IMO

That was the last thing that we done after fitting/springs/caps and collets...............Gave the top of the valve stem a Great Wallop with a 2lb hammer.

[dandywarhol]

There have been cases on here where built up heads have been supplied with incorrect valve clearances and or loose parts. Did the garage check this? I believe a tight valve clearance can cause this sort of damage.

If this is bollocks, sorry I am surmising what I have seen on here and my experience of petrol engines!

From my experiences a tight clearance would (zero clearance) would manifest itself as a misfire before anything else - the valve would need to open by around a millimetre to cause it to be struck by the piston and the engine would only be running on 3 cylinders well before then. If the adjuster locknut loosened off through not being tightened properly then I believe the clearance would become larger, not smaller, therefore the valve wouldn't clout the piston.

The Great Wallop technique is the way to do it to ensure the collets are properly in place. It is possible the valve retainer (circular part on top of the spring) cracked and the collets popped out......................

[widdowson2008]

There have been cases on here where built up heads have been supplied with incorrect valve clearances and or loose parts. Did the garage check this? I believe a tight valve clearance can cause this sort of damage.
................ If the adjuster locknut loosened off through not being tightened properly then I believe the clearance would become larger, not smaller, therefore the valve wouldn't clout the piston.......................

Think you misunderstood what I was getting at Alan. The problem with some of the heads supplied is not the locknut. It's the hemispherically seated bit that the rocker pivots in (opposite end of the rocker to the valve end).
There have been cases where these have not been tightened correctly during assembly.
If they loosen further (unscrew) due to vibration, they will lift up sending the valve down to operate closer (too close) to the piston. Personally, I haven't seen this but the head supplier NOW sends a note to his customers to make sure it is tight, SO IT IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. This was because there have been cases recently where a valve has done EXACTLY what you see in the initial pics. I shit you not.

[Velocette]

There have been cases on here where built up heads have been supplied with incorrect valve clearances and or loose parts. Did the garage check this? I believe a tight valve clearance can cause this sort of damage.

If this is bollocks, sorry I am surmising what I have seen on here and my experience of petrol engines!

From my experiences a tight clearance would (zero clearance) would manifest itself as a misfire before anything else - the valve would need to open by around a millimetre to cause it to be struck by the piston and the engine would only be running on 3 cylinders well before then. If the adjuster locknut loosened off through not being tightened properly then I believe the clearance would become larger, not smaller, therefore the valve wouldn't clout the piston.

The Great Wallop technique is the way to do it to ensure the collets are properly in place. It is possible the valve retainer (circular part on top of the spring) cracked and the collets popped out......................

I wasn't thinking of that sort of failure,A common cause of a dropped valve is the valve clearance not being maintained or incorrect. the contact pressure on the seat falls away, and the heat transfer between the valve and the head goes to shit, at which point the valve leaks. Mostly it just burns the valve away, but it can happen that the hot jet cuts the head off the stem, which drops into the combustion chember, with predictably unpleasant results.

In the pictures it looked like the head had come off the stem so I thought of the above scenario.

[dandywarhol]

There have been cases on here where built up heads have been supplied with incorrect valve clearances and or loose parts. Did the garage check this? I believe a tight valve clearance can cause this sort of damage.
................ If the adjuster locknut loosened off through not being tightened properly then I believe the clearance would become larger, not smaller, therefore the valve wouldn't clout the piston.......................

Think you misunderstood what I was getting at Alan. The problem with some of the heads supplied is not the locknut. It's the hemispherically seated bit that the rocker pivots in (opposite end of the rocker to the valve end).
There have been cases where these have not been tightened correctly during assembly.
If they loosen further (unscrew) due to vibration, they will lift up sending the valve down to operate closer (too close) to the piston. Personally, I haven't seen this but the head supplier NOW sends a note to his customers to make sure it is tight, SO IT IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. This was because there have been cases recently where a valve has done EXACTLY what you see in the initial pics. I shit you not.

Ah got you now! - I'd like to see what happened to the collets and retainer though...........

[dandywarhol]

There have been cases on here where built up heads have been supplied with incorrect valve clearances and or loose parts. Did the garage check this? I believe a tight valve clearance can cause this sort of damage.

If this is bollocks, sorry I am surmising what I have seen on here and my experience of petrol engines!

From my experiences a tight clearance would (zero clearance) would manifest itself as a misfire before anything else - the valve would need to open by around a millimetre to cause it to be struck by the piston and the engine would only be running on 3 cylinders well before then. If the adjuster locknut loosened off through not being tightened properly then I believe the clearance would become larger, not smaller, therefore the valve wouldn't clout the piston.

The Great Wallop technique is the way to do it to ensure the collets are properly in place. It is possible the valve retainer (circular part on top of the spring) cracked and the collets popped out......................

I wasn't thinking of that sort of failure,A common cause of a dropped valve is the valve clearance not being maintained or incorrect. the contact pressure on the seat falls away, and the heat transfer between the valve and the head goes to shit, at which point the valve leaks. Mostly it just burns the valve away, but it can happen that the hot jet cuts the head off the stem, which drops into the combustion chember, with predictably unpleasant results.

In the pictures it looked like the head had come off the stem so I thought of the above scenario.

Yup, seen a few old Brit bike engines with dropped valves and Vee Dub air cooled injuns

[widdowson2008]

Ah got you now! - I'd like to see what happened to the collets and retainer though...........

Me too.

[timorr]

Thanks for all that discussion and further information...it is all a little bit over my head, but still interesting.

I will update any progress from here on and let you know what the outcome from the parts supplier and manufacture looking through the photos is.

[timorr]

Time for another update and huge cry for help!!!

My Bongo has now sat in the garage for five months since this all began.
The supply company has messed me around now for months and have offered no practical or follow up assistance.

What should I do?
I see from other posts here on the forum that the supply company of my head gasket has has a few ups and downs over the last while. It seems no matter what I do they will not keep in contact with me or follow up the 1 year warranty I got with my head gasket.

I have not mentioned the name of the company here on line as I have tried to give them plenty of room to help me out. However they have gone back on promise after promise over the last while and I am just lost at what to do next.

Mainly I just want my Bongo back. The engine is destroyed. It has sat for 5 months waiting for a result.
What do you guys think i should do next?

Help...please...!

[westonwarrior]

get the car to a garage thst can fix it eithercwith a new engine or rebuild
then either wrrite off the cost or sue the supplier
for the cost

[maxi_77]

Can you use the small claims procedure in the UK to get the money back from the supplier, that may generate some action.

[borntobag]

if the goods or workmanship was faulty and it is covered by a warranty that they wount honour, it would be worth pursuing them through the small claims court under the sales of goods act

...or at least give them a deadline to sort it and tell them if its not done by then thats the road you will take, as well as naming and shaming them on here.

Good luck.

[mikeWalsall]

Sad ...

Maybe a long wait from the supplier if the manufacturer is in ...China ..!!

[Doone]

How about contacting Trading Standards?
I understand that you are in Ireland, and the supplier is not.
Do you have a Trading Standards office who can advise you?
Or can you phone/email the Trading Standards office in the same town as your supplier?
They should be able to advise you on what action to take.
THIS LINK gives advice on what to do.

[timorr]

Thanks for all the responses.
If only my part supplier was so quick and helpful.

I have already given them warning a number of times that if something is not done I will be going to trading standards or similar.
However the problem is that they have never acknowledged this contact.
It is a little harder trying to do this from Ireland, but I may now well follow up some of your suggestions and see what help I can get.

It is over €2000 wasted at this stage and I am left with a Bongo with no engine.
I think that I will just have to go ahead and face the fact that i am going to have to start again and pay for it all myself. I guess I now need to source an engine.
Anyone got one going cheap...and how the heck to I get it to Ireland?

I do not know if naming and shaming the company will really help. They are an established company that came to me through this site by advertising. I noticed other treads recently asking some questions about the company and it seemed to cause a bit of an issue legally.
So I do not see any positive side to ripping into them here. I do not believe they would come on the site and defend their case in front of everyone, and forums can end up with lots of miscommunications that may end up getting interpreted in the courts.

I think I will just go and shell out for a new engine and get my Bongo back. Winter is coming and I need my 4WD.