Stalling Bongo 2.5td - Ideas please

[cmm303]

OK, ADS have fitted the new pump, driven 12 miles through town traffic & no stalling issues, before it would stall a lot.

They said the issues were almost certainly caused by running on veg oil as it effects the seals.

ADS love to hate veg oil.

think there was another Bongo on here not long ago whose problems were suspected of being linked to a history of of veg oil use

Fingers crossed that's it and life will return to normal. Out of interest, what % veg oil had you been using, and for how long (time/miles).

I had a bad fuel pump leak. They showed me my seals, some of which had gone mushy because of veg oil and others that had gone hard because of veg oil! Somebody else on here had been in the previous week for the same problem and suffered the same ridicule! I hadn't done more than 1500 miles with veg oil overall, proportions varying between 20% and 70%. Who knows if/when the seals would have gone had I not touched the veg oil.

[mikeonb4c]

OK, ADS have fitted the new pump, driven 12 miles through town traffic & no stalling issues, before it would stall a lot.

They said the issues were almost certainly caused by running on veg oil as it effects the seals.

ADS love to hate veg oil.

think there was another Bongo on here not long ago whose problems were suspected of being linked to a history of of veg oil use

Fingers crossed that's it and life will return to normal. Out of interest, what % veg oil had you been using, and for how long (time/miles).

I had a bad fuel pump leak. They showed me my seals, some of which had gone mushy because of veg oil and others that had gone hard because of veg oil! Somebody else on here had been in the previous week for the same problem and suffered the same ridicule! I hadn't done more than 1500 miles with veg oil overall, proportions varying between 20% and 70%. Who knows if/when the seals would have gone had I not touched the veg oil.

I find it hard to believe 1500 miles on veg oil would have done that, but I could be wrong. One scenario that could explain the problem perhaps is if, with veg oil in the mix, the car was left standing for a long period of time (i.e. it wasn't the miles driven that was the problem but the length of time the seals were exposed). Mind you, it's suspicious that some seals had softened and others hardened: you'd think veg oil (if it had any effect) would have one effect or the other, but not both.

I suppose, being realistic, that a problem like this has to be expected (and budgeted for) on a vehicle of this age. Main thing is you're hopefully up and running and won't be bothered with that one again for a long time

[Mark Elvin]

The Bongo has stopped stalling. However, occasionally it drops to around 600rpm at tickover & still a little recalcitrant when stating after being stood.

There was a small pool of diesel on the drive where the Bongo parks so I did some searching for the source as it was towards the rear of the under tray.

Found the sediment switch was leaking so I removed the filter & cleaned all of the sealing surfaces around the o-ring seal faces on the sediment switch. Still a small weep so I'll replace the lot, but more importantly the idle is totally normal & it appears more eager to start again.

Happy days

[Northern Bongolow]

i only use good quality filters like mahle or the ones from bongo towers, the cheap ones internal valves tend to click while driving or even stick on bypass.
this seems to be more of a problem now bio is included in the diesel which strips crud out of the tank and lines.

[joethornber]

Logged on here this morning to compose almost the exact same question as the OP. Whilst this has been really helpful, I am a total layman when it comes to engines etc so I'm not sure it 100% solves my problem.

My story is as follows. The symptoms are the same as the OP except for only intermittently - not intermittent like only when it's cold or has been standing for a while, but seemingly just only choosing 1 day in 5 to be regularly dying when I'm coasting. Sometimes this is when it's cold or has been standing but I might drive it every day for a week and then randomly on day 4 it'll start wiping out on me at traffic lights or just while coasting along (recently even after a 20 min run at 70mph).

Frustratingly I have taken it to 2 mechanics who have never managed to experience it dying on them. They have between them (so I'm told) been right through the fuel system and checked all filters, none replaced. One of them changed the side seals on the fuel pump as there was an occasional little leak. Both said it runs A1 and neither experienced it cutting out. The second guy who looks after all my families cars didn't even charge me for the work as he said all was as it should be! Very confusing!

Just to clarify, when I say dying, I mean that when not on the gas, I begin to feel the van lurching and shuddering a little bit, then I notice that the revs are just dropping, not staying on idle, then if I don't rescue it with some gas, it just stalls and switches off. Braking and steering become heavy and I have to start her up again. Starting up generally takes a little while 5 seconds or so. The problem may then go away for a few sets of lights or whatever but it generally does it every 5 minutes or so.

I'm really not sure what I should be asking them to do next, I'd love her to be back to full reliability again. Happy to spend on it if needs be.

Thanks in advance!

[g8dhe]

Have you checked the fuel cap ? Does it give a vacuum hiss when you open it ? It has a one way valve in it to let air in, this sticks, wash it with warm soapy water if releasing the cap resolves the problem.

[joethornber]

Thanks for that, annoyingly I'm away from the van for a week so will have to build up a list of things to try.

Frustratingly due to it being such an intermittent fault it'll take ages each time to work out if it's fixed!

Any other ideas greatly appreciated, will report back on all.

[mikeonb4c]

Logged on here this morning to compose almost the exact same question as the OP. Whilst this has been really helpful, I am a total layman when it comes to engines etc so I'm not sure it 100% solves my problem.

My story is as follows. The symptoms are the same as the OP except for only intermittently - not intermittent like only when it's cold or has been standing for a while, but seemingly just only choosing 1 day in 5 to be regularly dying when I'm coasting. Sometimes this is when it's cold or has been standing but I might drive it every day for a week and then randomly on day 4 it'll start wiping out on me at traffic lights or just while coasting along (recently even after a 20 min run at 70mph).

Frustratingly I have taken it to 2 mechanics who have never managed to experience it dying on them. They have between them (so I'm told) been right through the fuel system and checked all filters, none replaced. One of them changed the side seals on the fuel pump as there was an occasional little leak. Both said it runs A1 and neither experienced it cutting out. The second guy who looks after all my families cars didn't even charge me for the work as he said all was as it should be! Very confusing!

Just to clarify, when I say dying, I mean that when not on the gas, I begin to feel the van lurching and shuddering a little bit, then I notice that the revs are just dropping, not staying on idle, then if I don't rescue it with some gas, it just stalls and switches off. Braking and steering become heavy and I have to start her up again. Starting up generally takes a little while 5 seconds or so. The problem may then go away for a few sets of lights or whatever but it generally does it every 5 minutes or so.

I'm really not sure what I should be asking them to do next, I'd love her to be back to full reliability again. Happy to spend on it if needs be.

Thanks in advance!

Maybe, if the side seals were worn, other (internal) seals are also and it is this that is the problem. Try the cheaper options first before moving on to the expensive option!

[joethornber]

Maybe, if the side seals were worn, other (internal) seals are also and it is this that is the problem. Try the cheaper options first before moving on to the expensive option![/quote]

Is this the expensive or cheap option? Assuming you mean that replacing the pump is expensive but this is cheap? Thanks

[Northern Bongolow]

what year is the bongo. ? early model has a throttle position sensor mounted on the top of the pump with 2 slotted screws that is adjustable, and a crankshaft sensor mounted low down at the front of the engine as mentioned in the thread, give it a clean up as it is in the firing line for road dirt, remove it and clean behind it, it can get oil on the internals of the sensor.

the later model (different pump etc) has an electronic throttle peddle instead of a cable which i think im right in saying is the throttle position sensor.
both of these things can make the engine stall if faulty or dirty or out of adjustment as the ecu cannot see what revs the engine is running at.

do a search at the top of the page and type in throttle and position and sensor, or crankshaft and sensor, the AND is important, then have a read at the threads that come up.

these little pipes in this thread can also suck flat if old and soft, check they are in good nick as these can cause stalling.
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=70862

[joethornber]

what year is the bongo. ? early model has a throttle position sensor mounted on the top of the pump with 2 slotted screws that is adjustable, and a crankshaft sensor mounted low down at the front of the engine as mentioned in the thread, give it a clean up as it is in the firing line for road dirt, remove it and clean behind it, it can get oil on the internals of the sensor.

the later model (different pump etc) has an electronic throttle peddle instead of a cable which i think im right in saying is the throttle position sensor.
both of these things can make the engine stall if faulty or dirty or out of adjustment as the ecu cannot see what revs the engine is running at.

do a search at the top of the page and type in throttle and position and sensor, or crankshaft and sensor, the AND is important, then have a read at the threads that come up.

these little pipes in this thread can also suck flat if old and soft, check they are in good nick as these can cause stalling.
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=70862

It's a 1996. Not sure which of these that would make it.

Amazing advice, will print all this for the mechanic.

[Bob]

1996 Is an early one, same year as mine.

[Northern Bongolow]

this is the early pump like yours.

24-2912 is the fuel inlet, when you remove this banjo bolt there is a little thimble filter, make sure this is clean. search for banjo filter on the top tab and have a read.

the part marked with a big black star is the throttle position sensor.

furthest away to the right the shaft comes out of the pump to the timing gear driven by the timing belt, this has a large seal that can get old/worn, this leaks fuel into the timing belt area but is not seen from outside, it leaks into the engine case then finds its way into the oil system, you could get your oil tested for the presence of excessive fuel, this may tell you if the front seal is suspect, sometimes it doesnt leak fuel but sucks in air, this could be your stalling problem.
search for nose and seal and repair.
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=70862.

20-h10 on this link is the crank sensor to be checked and cleaned, note the bolt to remove it and watch the 0 ring around it. if you click on the drawing numbers 20-h10 it will highlight it in the left margin and give you part numbers.

http://lushprojects.com/bongopartsmk2/c ... o=.html#16.

[mikeonb4c]

this is the early pump like yours.

24-2912 is the fuel inlet, when you remove this banjo bolt there is a little thimble filter, make sure this is clean. search for banjo filter on the top tab and have a read.

the part marked with a big black star is the throttle position sensor.

furthest away to the right the shaft comes out of the pump to the timing gear driven by the timing belt, this has a large seal that can get old/worn, this leaks fuel into the timing belt area but is not seen from outside, it leaks into the engine case then finds its way into the oil system, you could get your oil tested for the presence of excessive fuel, this may tell you if the front seal is suspect, sometimes it doesnt leak fuel but sucks in air, this could be your stalling problem.
search for nose and seal and repair.
http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... =3&t=70862.

20-h10 on this link is the crank sensor to be checked and cleaned, note the bolt to remove it and watch the 0 ring around it. if you click on the drawing numbers 20-h10 it will highlight it in the left margin and give you part numbers.

http://lushprojects.com/bongopartsmk2/c ... o=.html#16.

Bearing in mind labour costs and the age of the Bongo, is there a case for saying it would be more cost effective to fit a reconditioned pump and haven done with it? After TPS and other cheaper tests have eliminated other possible causes and suspicion centres on the pump.

[Northern Bongolow]

its a good shout mike especially as the gen new one from mazda is now no longer available.

lawsons diesels of edinburgh are a real good family firm that will recon your own pump. i rang him once for a price for a recon/rebuild pump that i had in a thousand bits in a bucket, he wasnt fazed he just said send it up we will do it to full recon standard, he gave me a ball park figure but couldnt be more accurate until it was done as worn parts would be examined /replaced etc. the price wasnt ridiculous though.