Siezed bongo?

[rita]

It would probably be worthwhile removing and checking the glow/heater plugs, and while the plugs are out squirt a wee drop of oil into the cylinders to help regain/build up the compression.

Good Luck.

[TonyBongo]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I've now checked that fuel lines into fuel pump were not blocked by old fuel by:
-Disconnecting banjo bolt feeding into fuel pump and manually depressing pump on top of fuel filter to observe fuel flow towards pump.

Next step will be to bypass the old fuel in tank by:
-Replacing old fuel filter (from above) by unbolting it and installing new one.
-Disconnecting fuel feed into fuel filter.
-Connecting Gerry can of diesel with injector/pump cleaner treatment to fuel filter inlet
-Manually pumping fuel filter pump to prime system with new diesel (with treatment )up to (disconnected) banjo bolt
-Reconnected banjo bolt

After that BEFORE I attempt to start the engine, any suggestions for things that I should check/change? I haven’t changed any of the fluids/oil for 6 years, but hopefully it'll be ok to run on what's in it for just a couple of minutes while I get it out of the garage and onto the drive where I can more easily access the sump plug etc (it's currently tight up against a garage wall and I can barely open the drivers door).

Cheers

Tony

[mikeonb4c]

Seems to me you're good to go Tony - will be v interested to hear how you get on

[sotal]

I'm no expert but going back to basics...

On your first post you said that when you turn the key the engine isn't turning over. Is this still the case?

If so I wouldn't be worried about fuel yet. The engine should turn over regardless of fuel.

You then confirmed that the engine isn't seized but I presume it still isn't turning over on the key?

If so it sounds electrical - either the starter not performing under load, battery too poor to start or a bad earth/connection.

I'd be concentrating on getting it turning first.

I'm not sure how relevant it is but my Land Rover has sat on the drive for the last 8 years (since I had kids and no time!) and still has the same diesel in the tank - I get the odd day to play with it now and again - it still starts straight up with a good battery. The technology of the day was a little less reliant on good fuel but still the fuel is 8 years old! On the flip side my motorbike would barely start on 6 month old petrol. I do think diesel is a bit more resilient.

[teenmal]

I'm no expert but going back to basics...

On your first post you said that when you turn the key the engine isn't turning over. Is this still the case?

If so I wouldn't be worried about fuel yet. The engine should turn over regardless of fuel.

You then confirmed that the engine isn't seized but I presume it still isn't turning over on the key?

If so it sounds electrical - either the starter not performing under load, battery too poor to start or a bad earth/connection.

I'd be concentrating on getting it turning first.

I'm not sure how relevant it is but my Land Rover has sat on the drive for the last 8 years (since I had kids and no time!) and still has the same diesel in the tank - I get the odd day to play with it now and again - it still starts straight up with a good battery. The technology of the day was a little less reliant on good fuel but still the fuel is 8 years old! On the flip side my motorbike would barely start on 6 month old petrol. I do think diesel is a bit more resilient.

flywheel turning as I try to start engine, but it's not picking up.

[TonyBongo]

Hi – thanks for the feedback sotal.

Before removing, bench testing, and refitting the starter motor, the engine was not turning over – it was just clicking loudly from the starter motor solenoid – hence my initial thoughts that the starter had failed (or that the engine had seized).

After placing the starter motor back in the vehicle, and giving the flywheel a small nudge through the bell crank inspection panel (to check that the engine was not seized), the engine does turn over but will not ‘start’.

I’m currently replacing the fuel filter and preparing to run the engine from a gerry can of fresh diesel with pump/injector cleaner in it. If that’s still doesn’t work, I’ll start exploring other potential problems like the electrics.

I read online that older engines are less fussy about their fuel compared to more modern ones (not that a '95 Bongo engine is cutting edge), so maybe that accounts why for why you’re able to run your Land Rover on 8 year old fuel?

I’ll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

[sotal]

Fair enough,

That sounds more promising.

Yes the Land Rovers are known for not being too fussy but I'd still expect it to run albeit maybe poorly.

As you say a 95 diesel bongo isn't exactly cutting edge so providing you have compression and fuel you should be good to go.

Keep us updated

[mellon man]

I'm no expert but feel we are over complicating the main problem I agree need to make sure fuel and filters etc. need to be in good condition for engine to run, But if the engine will not turn over on the key and is not seized surely it's got to be electrical and doing that step buy step should be the first things focus on
Also in the past have had starter motors that bench test OK but would not turn over engine once fitted on a vehicle.
If it is clicking first thing I would do is try another battery.

[TonyBongo]

Tonight I got a new fuel filter back into the bongo, connected a gerry can of new diesel (with injector cleaner added to it) to the filter to bypass the old diesel in the tank, manually pumped the fuel filter pump to prime system with the new diesel up to the (disconnected) banjo bolt, and then tightened the banjo bolt. There is also a new batter connected to the vehicle which displays a 12.8v charge.

After turning over a 2-3 times, but not picking up, the engine stopped turning over - not even any clicking from the solenoid.

I think that there is an NEW electrical issue because the immobiliser LED, which normally flashes away when the ignition is off, is now permanently off. If power isn't getting to the immobiliser, it's probably not gong to get to the starter motor either. All the lights on the dash light up normally except for the glowplug heat light - although I can't remember whether that was always the case when the immobiliser was not deactivated.

I've done a visual check on all the fuses under the dashboard, and a continuity check on most of the fuses under the hood, but they all appear ok. Any suggestions?

Tony

[mikeonb4c]

Is it turning over freely/fast? Have you considered trying quick start spray? Do you know if glowplugs/relay are working? Could you see fuel being sucked up the fuel line into the pump?

[Bongolia]

I would proffer starter motor.
Quick check
Eliminate possible earthing problems by putting a jump lead from Neg batt to starer body or as close as you can get. Then put a voltmeter (or 12V bulb) onto the thinner wire at the starter, you can leave it connected, other side to ground and turn the key if you have a voltage then the problem is at the starter motor if no volts then you may be right on the immobilizer

[TonyBongo]

Thanks Guys

It did initially turn over, though I wouldn't have said it sounded fast or free - sounded a bit laboured.

I've got quick start spray, and was just spraying some into the air intake as I turned the engine over (as per instructions) when everything stopped (I don't think the spray broke it - think it's just coincidence.

Not sure about state of glowplugs or relay. How do I check the relay? Where is it? TBH - until I get the immobiliser flashing again, I'm not sure any electricity is getting to the engine.

I manually pumped the fuel filter to get the new fuel up into the banjo bolt before tightening it, but TBH, I'm not sure that the car would have turned over enough to get the fuel through the pump into the injectors (a coupe of approx. 10 second bursts) before the electrical problem kicked in.

Will check the power to the starter motor tonight, although I suspect that with the immobiliser not working, that is killing the power to the starter.

I was 'hoping' that there was a fuse that had blown that was interrupting the power to the immobiliser and in turn the starter. Changing a fuse would be a lot easier than trying to fix/replace/remove the immobiliser!

Cheers

Tony

[mikeonb4c]

Thanks Guys

It did initially turn over, though I wouldn't have said it sounded fast or free - sounded a bit laboured.

I've got quick start spray, and was just spraying some into the air intake as I turned the engine over (as per instructions) when everything stopped (I don't think the spray broke it - think it's just coincidence.

Not sure about state of glowplugs or relay. How do I check the relay? Where is it? TBH - until I get the immobiliser flashing again, I'm not sure any electricity is getting to the engine.

I manually pumped the fuel filter to get the new fuel up into the banjo bolt before tightening it, but TBH, I'm not sure that the car would have turned over enough to get the fuel through the pump into the injectors (a coupe of approx. 10 second bursts) before the electrical problem kicked in.

Will check the power to the starter motor tonight, although I suspect that with the immobiliser not working, that is killing the power to the starter.

I was 'hoping' that there was a fuse that had blown that was interrupting the power to the immobiliser and in turn the starter. Changing a fuse would be a lot easier than trying to fix/replace/remove the immobiliser!

Cheers

Tony

If it were me, I'd first establish that I had power going to the glowplug relay and the glowplugs. Have a search of old threads for advice on that.

Also, if the battery is at all suspect, I'd have that load tested (6yrs is a reasonable battery replacement time/interval anyway). Apologies/ignore if you've already said the batery is new - can't see all posts while typing! What is the AmpHr / Cranking Amps of your battery by the way.

Having done that, and if things check out OK, I'd move on to suspecting fuel supply issues.

As you've implied, engine needs to be turning well before you can say much about fuel pump and/or quick-start spray. It's quite possible that an old fuel pump, stood around for 6 years, could have suffered deterioration of seals. One of the consequences (folk on here say, in reference to one of the seals) can be that air gets drawn in through the leak (rather than fuel leak out as more commonly reported, as its eaiser to spot). If that has happened over a 6 year period things could perhaps have dried out inside the pump. It would be interesting to see whether, if you can get it to kick into life using easy-start, it manages to keep running. If it does, it would be interesting to see if it misbehaves again after being left standing for a few days, as that might be a symptom of a compromised fuel pump seal letting air in and (presumably) breaking the priming between tank and pump.

And of course there is the 'old fuel' possibility, but you've circumvented that for now so problem is hopefully not linked to that.

I'd welcome correction/comment on the above though as I'm not a techie.

[TonyBongo]

Checked every fuse under the dash and bonnet this evening with a meter, including the glow plug link wire behind the main battery and everything is fine. I've even checked the glow plug relay and it seems fine. FYI the battery is a new Varta Blue E23 (CCA 630A).

The (Cobra 8510) immobiliser seems to be dead (led not flashing - it should only go off when I touch the key fob on it), and consequently the car won't even turn over. Can't see where the immobiliser control box is located (somewhere in front of the drivers knees) and consequently can't track back to figure where the power is/isn't getting to or whether there is a hidden fuse that I can't see.

grrrrrrr..

[mikeonb4c]

70ah battery is not the most powerful for a diesel Bongo. However, many use a battery of that capacity and its not the cause so much as a possible limiter on how long you can turn the engine over.

I wonder what the immobiliser is set up to immobilise when it's working properly. Fuel cut-off solenoid maybe (i have a simple device on mine that does that)? I didn't know immobilisers normally disabled the starter motor. And i wonder what might have caused the immobiliser to play up. Whatever, you could do with being sure fuel cut-off is allowing fuel through.

What a pain!