Overheating Issue

[GICarey]

Hi all,

Just passed my first year with the Bongo, so it went in for MOT (nothing major: rear oil seals leaking onto rear discs, and rear anti-roll bushes needed replacing; garage replaced with parts I ordered from club shop, replaced brake pads also).

Anyway, KM wise, it was time to change the cambelt, so I had him do that and a full service whilst it was off the road, to get me ready for the summer, again I sourced the parts for this from club store, garage did the work, and Bongo was returned to me last Wednesday, £280 for the MOT and labour, not too bad I thought.

Don't really use the car during the week, made just one 2 min journey to pick the wife up from the station with heavy bags. Then, around rolled the, now somewhat ruined Bank Holiday weekend.

Saturday lunch time, and we were heading just 10 or so miles away to Knebworth House (garden festival the wife was keen on), got into the Bongo and, 1.2 miles from home, at the round-about which joins the motorway, I glanced down to see my temp gauge higher than the running temp norm (normally takes about 4-5 miles to get up to temp, with the last 3 or so miles being on the motorway), deciding against joining the m-way at this point, i turned off the roundabout and drove to a layby (total distance from home 2 miles) by which point the temp guage was almost in the high end.

Stopped, turned off, popped bonnet and chairs up and checked hoses.

No heat in the header tank, radiator (tho the fan was going), or pipes running to the front, not much heat in the pipes under the seats, some slight warmth in the smaller pipes under the passenger seat.

a LOT of pressure in the system, however, some water being forced out of the little pipe on the header tank, and a test half-turn on the header tank let out a fair amount of pressure and a little (cold) water. Didn't want to undo it and risk losing coolant at this point so sealed her up, switched her off and let her cool down.

After about 30 mins, drove the 2 miles back home again, with one stop for about 10 mins in a layby, again, needle running in the high end. Not a happy boy.

Grabbed some builders rubber gloves, a towel and a jug to try to catch what i could, and opened the header tank, again masses of pressure, and a significant amount of coolant ejected itself from the car, firstly cold/cool, eventually warm and f-ing hot. Figure I lost about 3 pints, managed to catch about 1.

Rinsed the spillage away, then started her up with the expansion tank cap off, significant increase in steam leaving expansion tank with cap off when running, checking hoses, most of those under the seats now how, top hose coming into rad now hot, bottom hose leaving rad not yet.

At this point, determined not to let a broken car ruin the nice sunny day, I closed it all up, shrugged shoulders, and went off to examine the methods of public transport to get us to see the plants. We eventually got there at about 3pm after a 15 min train journey and 5 min cab ride (plan was to get there for 1330 in the car, oh well) and had a nice afternoon, although getting the £90 of plants the wife decided to buy home was quite a mission!


So - suggestions, please, for what is likely to be the problem? Almost impossible, to my mind, not to have been something the garage messed up (had a year of trouble free motoring till now!). I'm thinking this is likely to be no flow of water round the system, either due to an airlock, or water-pump not turning? Anything which they'd need to do to change a cambelt likely to impact that? I'd have thought not really.

I'll probably have an hour or so later today to get out there and have a look, i'll check the water pump actually has a belt on it, and may do what I can to bleed and top-up the cooling system, see if i can get it running normally for use this afternoon (was supposed to be a DIY day in the garden), and tomorrow (trip to Cambridge was planned; may once again be forced onto the trains, not a tragedy in this instance, cambridge quite easy from here).

Anything else I should check? Concern, i guess, is around head & head-gasket, if water has been boiling up in there and only moving through convection?

I suspect it'll be back to the garage on Tuesday morning for a grumble!

Thanks,

Gav.

[maxheadroom]

sounds like an air lock somewhere, do a bleed an see how it goes.

[maxheadroom]

GICarey,
this should help

http://www.igmaynard.co.uk/bongo/forum/ ... ed#p295738

[scanner]

Is this a (frankly useless) reading from an unmodified standard temp gauge or do you have a Mason Alarm fitted that modifies the gauge so that it gives a usefully linear indication of engine temp?

By the time the standard unmodified gauge shows anything over 11 o'clock it's often too late.

[mikeonb4c]

All very strange. I wonder if you should not touch it until you have spoken with the garage, as you don't want them to be able to say it is something you did that caused anything.

Can any mechanical expert on here think why the garage might have need to interfere withe the coolant system? Did they think for example that changing the coolant was part of a full service? If so, sounds like they don't know how to bleed the Bongo system. Let them see the proper instructions if so. More tricky to sort out is what they will undertake to do about their error (assuming you can get them to admit it - maybe you should ask them how they bled the Bongo before showing them the proper instructions so they can't just say 'yes, thats how we did it') should the head or head damage be goosed.

But take it one step at a time. They must come to your house to bleed it as you don't want to be driving it at all until sorted. With luck, proper bleeding will put everything back to normal, but there is a possiblity the head (or head gasket at least) has suffered damage and having the coolant tested for signs of exhuast gases should be part of the garages undertaking to ensure things have been put right.

There's a lot of evidence that garages without experience of Bongos can be a menace. A clash between 'wer'e professionals - we know what we're doing' and failure to acknowledge that all cars are different and some are much more different than others. Hey ho.

[Aethelric]

No heat in the header tank, radiator (tho the fan was going), or pipes running to the front, not much heat in the pipes under the seats, some slight warmth in the smaller pipes under the passenger seat.

The header tank is part of the normal circulation. If it was cold it implies that the coolant was not circulating. Could be the pump? Or lots of air in the system.

Dave

[haydn callow]

I would just ask the garage (before saying there is anything wrong) Did you do any work on the cooling system whilst you had it in for service...If the answer is yes...ask them how they bled any air that might have entered the system....If the answer does not match up with one of the methods we all use.....then the problem is down to them.....Was it a 'Bongo' garage ??

[GICarey]

Thanks all, comments of various responses:

Scanner:

Is this a (frankly useless) reading from an unmodified standard temp gauge or do you have a Mason Alarm fitted that modifies the gauge so that it gives a usefully linear indication of engine temp?

Afraid it's the built-in temp gauge, unmodified, not a modified one or digital supplementary one.

Maxhedroom: Thanks for leak. Bleed was my intention for today. My driveway is quite a slope. Should I use this to try any bleeding? or should i roll out onto the road where i can do it on the level (I don't have a trolley jack to see-saw it I'm afraid).

mikeon4bc:

all very strange. I wonder if you should not touch it until you have spoken with the garage, as you don't want them to be able to say it is something you did that caused anything.

Fair point

mikeon4bc:

Can any mechanical expert on here think why the garage might have need to interfere withe the coolant system? Did they think for example that changing the coolant was part of a full service?

They certainly didn't replace the coolant (though from the look of what i collected, it might not suffer from a drain & refill). My thoughts entirely, would you, or would you not, expect to touch the coolant system for any of the work I had done?

mikeon4bc:

There's a lot of evidence that garages without experience of Bongos can be a menace. A clash between 'wer'e professionals - we know what we're doing' and failure to acknowledge that all cars are different and some are much more different than others. Hey ho

Agreed - sadly, no Bongo knowledgable garages anywhere near me, this place is just 30 seconds round the corner (which is, at least, a saving grace should I need to drop it back there for further work!), have generally be fine on past cards (though they did, once, screw up brake disc & pad replacement on a 406 by letting an apprentice do it...)

Aethelric:

The header tank is part of the normal circulation. If it was cold it implies that the coolant was not circulating. Could be the pump? Or lots of air in the system.

Yeah, this was my thinking.

haydn callow:

I would just ask the garage (before saying there is anything wrong) Did you do any work on the cooling system whilst you had it in for service...If the answer is yes...ask them how they bled any air that might have entered the system....If the answer does not match up with one of the methods we all use.....then the problem is down to them.....Was it a 'Bongo' garage ??

Good point haydn, though a call out of the blue to ask the question obviously will trigger a concern on their end. Not a bongo garage, sadly, none around these parts

[scanner]

have generally be fine on past cards (though they did, once, screw up brake disc & pad replacement on a 406 by letting an apprentice do it...(

Hmmmmm

have generally be fine

?

They let an apprentice work on BRAKES and don't check the work has been done properly?

I'd be thinking very carefully about NEVER going ANYWHERE near them EVER!

[GICarey]

have generally be fine on past cards (though they did, once, screw up brake disc & pad replacement on a 406 by letting an apprentice do it...(

Hmmmmm

have generally be fine

?

They let an apprentice work on BRAKES and don't check the work has been done properly?

I'd be thinking very carefully about NEVER going ANYWHERE near them EVER!

You're almost certainly correct, after that event the 406 (which was vital for work at the time) went to the main dealer every time, though other, less essential, motors have been looked after here since. Problem locally is there's them, a quick fit, and a few main dealers, beyond that it's a fair trek to anywhere, thus this place has gotten my repeat business through convenience really.

[GICarey]

Spoke to the garage this morning, they confirmed they "needed to remove one of the coolant pipes to get to the cambelt" (which, according to the fact-sheet which I provided to them, isn't generally required; YMMV) and so "could have left a bubble in there I guess".

Going to pop it round to them now (30 second drive, and no traffic in my village this time of day, so shouldn't cause problems) and they'll take a look, follow the fact-sheet on bleeding, and hydro-carbon test the coolant to make sure head-gasket in place (I shall dig out my own hydrocarbon test kit upon the cars return and test myself to make sure. sadly that means going into the depths of my disgrace of a garage).

Fingers crossed.

Gav.

[missfixit70]

What did they replace the coolant with? I hope they flushed it out thoroughly so there's no danger of mixing coolants that may cause problems further down the line. No good just going by colour.
It does sound like you need to find a bongo competent garage & put up with the inconvenience of it being a bit further away.

[Mike Jill and Emily]

Hope it works out well for you - it's good that they admitted they had removed a pipe, lets hope that it checks out ok once properly bled.

I carry the bleeding instructions in the glove box so "if" we ever have any need to bleed the system the info is at hand (I also have a printout of all the fuses - am I an anorak )

[scanner]

Spoke to the garage this morning, they confirmed they "needed to remove one of the coolant pipes to get to the cambelt" (which, according to the fact-sheet which I provided to them, isn't generally required; YMMV) and so "could have left a bubble in there I guess".

Going to pop it round to them now (30 second drive, and no traffic in my village this time of day, so shouldn't cause problems) and they'll take a look, follow the fact-sheet on bleeding, and hydro-carbon test the coolant to make sure head-gasket in place (I shall dig out my own hydrocarbon test kit upon the cars return and test myself to make sure. sadly that means going into the depths of my disgrace of a garage).

Fingers crossed.

Gav.

Well warn them that if their incompetence causes any on going problems the cost of putting it right is up to them.

Are you sure that if they can't follow the cambelt instructions, they can follow the bleeding instructions.

Sounds as if I wouldn't trust them with a wheel barrow.

[GICarey]

Spoke to the garage this morning, they confirmed they "needed to remove one of the coolant pipes to get to the cambelt" (which, according to the fact-sheet which I provided to them, isn't generally required; YMMV) and so "could have left a bubble in there I guess".

OK, when dropped it off, spoke to the mechanic who actually did the work, who tells me that the only pipe he removed was the intercooler pipe, nothing on the cooling system side. Curiouser & Curiouser said alice.